Electric vehicles

[Jacob]

.....it’s a necessity and one that isn’t going away.

But it's only become a necessity for about one generation, since WW2.
How on earth did people manage?
Answer; walking, cycling, public transport.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

But it's only become a necessity for about one generation, since WW2.
How on earth did people manage?
Answer; walking, cycling, public transport.

That it has become a "necessity" over the last 80 years (3 not 1 generation) is a testament to its desirability over alternatives.

Walking and cycling is an option for short journeys only. Bus and train are old tech - inefficient, inflexible and costly - effectively obsolete compared with what may come.

Reverting 1930s behaviours would not be a quick fix - the car has allowed the genie to escape the bottle. Social, family, work, infrastructures (hospitals, schools, retail) have all come to rely upon the flexibility of personal transport.

 

[Nick.]

The vehicle retains a complete record of when and how it was charged. They also record discharge rates for different driving conditions, weather etc.

Fully get that and agree, and as Blackswanwood said, this is likely to be a major headache down the line for the finance companies who may well have loads of fleet cars with 'under maintained' batteries with the resulting loss of re-sale price. Next logical step would be lease cars to have a clause saying about the 80% must be adhered to most of the time - same as currently all servicing is required to be done on time etc. All I know is my lease said nothing about charging in the small print so I just went 100% all the time - same as I filled all my previous cars up to 100% diesel or petrol.

 

[John Brown]

But it's only become a necessity for about one generation, since WW2.
How on earth did people manage?
Answer; walking, cycling, public transport.

While you're right, it's not as simple as returning to walking, cycling etc., as our environment has changed along with our habits, and we've lost a lot of our local shopping facilities. It would take some time and money to restore the corner shops, local hardware stores etc. Hospitals, for example, have also become more centralised, with the loss of cottage hospitals. There's a lot of stuff to unwind.

I suppose we could buy everything online, and have it delivered by driverless cars or drones, but many would miss out on social contact.

 

[Geoff_S]

But it's only become a necessity for about one generation, since WW2.
How on earth did people manage?
Answer; walking, cycling, public transport.

Yes, but what did people do before the invention of the bicycle and public transport? Of course, it was the horse!

We all go back to the horse. Problem solved!

 

[Nick.]

Electric robot horses I reckon! That actually sounds pretty cool

 

[Vulcan]

The game changer will imho be driverless cars. They are much closer than many people expect and have the potential to remove the need for many to have a costly lump of metal sat on their drive/outside of their house idle for most of the time.

I agree. Many, if not most, people believe they have to own a car. The reality is what they really need is personal transport when they want it, there is a difference. Once autonomous personal transport becomes poplar it will remove the need for many people to own a car. Autonomous vehicles should be much cheaper to make and without a driver they should be very much cheaper to hire than a minicab.
If people could call up a cybercab on their phone and know that within a few minutes it would be at their location I suspect many wouldn’t bother buying another car. Another advantage is that it would put private personal transport within reach of many people that can’t currently afford or are able to drive their own car.
From what I’ve read Elon Musk doesn’t expect Tesla to be making cars for sale to the public indefinitely. Instead they will be making autonomous vehicles for their own fleet or others like Uber.

 

[TRITON]

Got my 2nd Ebike up and running last week. Needed to replace the forks, lower headset bearing/cup and front brake, along with a different stem and bars
Although this is totally different from Ebike#1 which is a 12 spd full suss Emtb, this one is an automatic 2 speed internal motor hub from Bafang and a Gates carbon belt instead of a chain
It's surprisingly easy to pedal despite only having the two gears

If and when I replace Ebike #1 I'll maybe opt for one of E-cargo bikes from Riese & Müller or Tern.

I would say unless you're needing to drive a considerable distance to visit relatives or holidays, work etc, most of your about town journeys could be easily completed on an Ebike

 

[Rhossydd]

If people could call up a cybercab on their phone and know that within a few minutes it would be at their location I suspect many wouldn’t bother buying another car.

All very well for cities and suburban lives, but I can't imagine how long it would take to roll that out across the whole UK, if it's possible at all.
All the tests of autonomous vehicles seem to happen in places with wide streets and layouts like graph paper. The difficulties of getting that tech to work in a narrow Devon lane or making provision of 'on call' cabs in rural Gwynedd make it seem like a distant fantasy.

 

[Geoff_S]

I agree. Many, if not most, people believe they have to own a car. The reality is what they really need is personal transport when they want it, there is a difference. Once autonomous personal transport becomes poplar it will remove the need for many people to own a car. Autonomous vehicles should be much cheaper to make and without a driver they should be very much cheaper to hire than a minicab.
If people could call up a cybercab on their phone and know that within a few minutes it would be at their location I suspect many wouldn’t bother buying another car. Another advantage is that it would put private personal transport within reach of many people that can’t currently afford or are able to drive their own car.
From what I’ve read Elon Musk doesn’t expect Tesla to be making cars for sale to the public indefinitely. Instead they will be making autonomous vehicles for their own fleet or others like Uber.
View attachment 187289

Nice in theory, but aren’t we forgetting that substantial element of the human race that regard the world as their dustbin?

 

[selectortone]

8:00pm Wednesday Channel 5: Petrol vs Electric Cars. Could be worth a watch.

 

[Delaney]

They are - so what most EV owners do is their regular charge to 80% and only charge to 100% when they will be doing a long journey. The car/app/charger let you specify so it’s easy to do.

The anti-EVers will say “ooh another proof point that petrol is better” but the reality is that the daily mileage of most car users gets nowhere near 80% of the maximum range and the vehicle is being topped up on an EV tariff overnight which is far cheaper than petrol.

To be balanced ICE vehicles do continue to be better for those motorists who don’t have access to home charging. IMHO range is a not an issue for the vast majority of road users.

If you want to be transparent here, you should call EV’s ‘remote combustion vehicles’ as the pollution generated by burning fossil fuels, happens remotely.
Not to mention the increased pollution from the heavier vehicle and its battery pack.

 

[sploo]

If you want to be transparent here, you should call EV’s ‘remote combustion vehicles’ as the pollution generated by burning fossil fuels, happens remotely.
Not to mention the increased pollution from the heavier vehicle and its battery pack.

Fossil fuel power stations can have significantly more complex filters/scrubbers to remove particulates and gasses - as it doesn't matter if said filtering system weighs 50 tons; unlike a car it's not going anywhere. I.e. there is at least a potential that one power station can power n EV cars with a level of emitted pollution that's less than n ICE cars being driven on the road.

Also, a fair chunk of the UK's power now comes from renewal sources (such as wind); so not all the electricity generated for EVs is from combustion.

 

[Delaney]

All very well for cities and suburban lives, but I can't imagine how long it would take to roll that out across the whole UK, if it's possible at all.
All the tests of autonomous vehicles seem to happen in places with wide streets and layouts like graph paper. The difficulties of getting that tech to work in a narrow Devon lane or making provision of 'on call' cabs in rural Gwynedd make it seem like a distant fantasy.

It’s not going to happen.
It’s just a new avenue for VC to throw money at because they see at as an inevitable outcome.
There isn’t enough resources for all the cars to be electric so only 20% if that of cars will be.
Those EV’s still burn fossil fuel to convert it into electricity, so they still pollute, they just do it remotely.
To top it off, the EU are banning Chinese ev’s that are available to buy now and are affordable (I know, what ever happened to saving the planet), to protect German and French car manufacturers.
Not to mention switching over to electric will be much more expensive in the long run whilst
weakening our national security greatly.
Talking tough on Russia, who will continue to use gas, whilst exposing our entire energy grid to them via a few wind farms and solar fields, sounds like something someone would do if they’ve though we are never going to have a war again.

It’s all a bit of a farce really.

Ban diesel cars, ban big cars and engines over 1.5 ltrs unless for commercial use such as the building trade.
That would cut down your pollution levels nationally far more than EV’s would but then wealthier people like driving around in heavier cars with bigger engines, so the government won’t be doing that.
And another thought, maybe lower immigration and the population size in general and have less cars?

Let’s be honest, this isn’t about saving the environment is it?

 

[sploo]

From what I’ve read Elon Musk doesn’t expect Tesla to be making cars for sale to the public indefinitely. Instead they will be making autonomous vehicles for their own fleet or others like Uber.

The idea of public transport being dominated by the great free speech advocate known as "Space Karen" is chilling; you'd literally just have to utter a phrase that he didn't like and it'd grind to a halt and throw you out. You know, stuff like "pay your taxes", or "cisgender".

(I'm joking, but only a little bit)

 

[Delaney]

Fossil fuel power stations can have significantly more complex filters/scrubbers to remove particulates and gasses - as it doesn't matter if said filtering system weighs 50 tons; unlike a car it's not going anywhere. I.e. there is at least a potential that one power station can power n EV cars with a level of emitted pollution that's less than n ICE cars being driven on the road.

Also, a fair chunk of the UK's power now comes from renewal sources (such as wind); so not all the electricity generated for EVs is from combustion.

‘Can’

 

[sploo]

‘Can’

"Can" (EVs) is still better than "Can't" (ICE)

Looking at https://grid.iamkate.com/ right now (dreary but calm day; so little wind or solar - at least where I am) shows the UK is running at 38% fossil fuels (mostly gas) , 14% renewables (solar, wind, hydro), 24% nuclear and biomass, with the rest being made up by interconnectors with other countries.

Data for the year as a whole shows fossil fuel at 28% and renewables at nearly 39%.

It's easy for us to be negative about things, but the data exists; and it's clear than UK energy generation is getting better and cleaner.

Give me a small block US V8 any day of the week (the noise they make is incredible); but it isn't the future, and I accept that.

 

[MikeJhn]

All very well for cities and suburban lives, but I can't imagine how long it would take to roll that out across the whole UK, if it's possible at all.
All the tests of autonomous vehicles seem to happen in places with wide streets and layouts like graph paper. The difficulties of getting that tech to work in a narrow Devon lane or making provision of 'on call' cabs in rural Gwynedd make it seem like a distant fantasy.

I can't even get a mobile phone connection, it seems most live in suburban areas and assume everyone else does.

 

[Agent_zed]

If you want to be transparent here, you should call EV’s ‘remote combustion vehicles’ as the pollution generated by burning fossil fuels, happens remotely.
Not to mention the increased pollution from the heavier vehicle and its battery pack.

That's because people are being sold the 'wrong' type of EV. The future isn't having a great big SUV that is exactly the same as the ICE version. Small 1 or 2 seater EVs is where people should be heading for commuter cars.

They aren't quite right yet but the Citreon Ami and the Renault Twizy are where it should he heading.

I like to imagine if city traffic overnight changed to being the above type of cars. Parking would be so easy, there would be far less queues and the air wouldn't be so awful. You could even easily pass down side streets that are currently jammed full of huge cars, making it single lane in a lot of streets.

 

[Rhossydd]

Renault Twizy are where it should he heading.

Ever travelled in one of those ? They're DREADFUL and scary.

Small 1 or 2 seater EVs is where people should be heading for commuter cars.

Except people don't just buy a car to commute in. They want to go shopping, take stuff to the dump, take the children/parents out for the day, go on holiday in them.......