Electric vehicles

[Screwed]

Possibly the Teslas are bought predominantly by fleet buyers who are given incentives to purchase electric?

Massive tax incentives to buy EV's. So virtually all in a broad sense are are company vehicles. So yet again we're all funding this unpopular twist in transportation.

 

[Cabinetman]

A lot of coverage here in the States of EV’s not able to charge in the very cold weather. Don’t know the details but there are pictures of rows of cars trying to charge for hours and nothing to show for it, and interviews with very disgruntled owners.

 

[Jester129]

Reports here of EV's losing 50% of value over first 3 years! That is a massive amount! Glad I bought a self-charging hybrid!

 

[Blackswanwood]

Massive tax incentives to buy EV's. So virtually all in a broad sense are are company vehicles. So yet again we're all funding this unpopular twist in transportation.

I don’t believe that there are massive tax incentives.

There are some such as a lower rate of VED (which seems now to be being rolled back). An alternative view would be that fiscal policy is being used to incentivise a switch to a cleaner method of transport. We’ve had different VED rates for different types of engine or vehicle for many years.

 

[MikeJhn]

Buy a Jaguar in the UK they loose 50% of value once driven out of the showroom.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Reports here of EV's losing 50% of value over first 3 years! That is a massive amount! Glad I bought a self-charging hybrid!

No different to an ICE vehicle then. Why do you think a self-charging hybrid will be any different?

 

[worn thumbs]

Reports here of EV's losing 50% of value over first 3 years! That is a massive amount! Glad I bought a self-charging hybrid!

At least up till the pandemic it was normal for any car to lose 65% of it's value over three years.Which may have been one of the drivers that led to the overwhelming popularity of PCP plans,which worked out less expensive and gave the finance providers a nice reliable income stream.The spike in used car values since may have altered things.

 

[stuart little]

NO!
That's why we're being priced out of driving and well before 2035 we will be under travel restrictions. Our future has already been planned.

I'm already priced out! But who cares? I've got my furry friend, & as long as I can build ships, I don't.

 

[Screwed]

I don’t believe that there are massive tax incentives.

There are some such as a lower rate of VED (which seems now to be being rolled back). An alternative view would be that fiscal policy is being used to incentivise a switch to a cleaner method of transport. We’ve had different VED rates for different types of engine or vehicle for many years.

That's called sticking your head in the sand. It's a fact and the reason my stepfather bought one. As he said it was a no brainer given the savings it made to his business.
The simple fact is they can't sell these EV's without massive incentives or marketing!
Hertz in the US is selling off there fleet of EV's mainly Tesla's I believe due to customer nondemand and many dealer franchises have said quite clearly they don't want them.
As for them being more environmentally friendly have you seen the lithium processing plant in Canada? At best your just moving the pollution from one place to another. Go look closely at the pole to pole in an EV challenge to understand the total BS behind EV's

 

[Blackswanwood]

That's called sticking your head in the sand. It's a fact and the reason my stepfather bought one. As he said it was a no brainer given the savings it made to his business.
The simple fact is they can't sell these EV's without massive incentives or marketing!
Hertz in the US is selling off there fleet of EV's mainly Tesla's I believe due to customer nondemand and many dealer franchises have said quite clearly they don't want them.
As for them being more environmentally friendly have you seen the lithium processing plant in Canada? At best your just moving the pollution from one place to another. Go look closely at the pole to pole in an EV challenge to understand the total BS behind EV's

My head isn’t in the sand at all. I’ve made the transition having done my research and it works for me. If you read my previous posts I’ve been quite clear in my views that at the moment EV’s don’t work for everyone though.

No cars (EV or ICE) get sold without marketing or incentives. If I have overlooked some “massive tax incentives” (which was the point of my post) perhaps you could share them?

Hertz are reducing the size of their EV fleet. It’s been discussed earlier in the thread. It’s a bit more nuanced than you suggest.

I do not believe that the production of EV’s is without it’s own environmental challenges. I do however believe that their total impact on the environment (production and lifetime use) is better and will continue to improve.

It’s okay to have different views so no need to claim people have their heads in the sand.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

EVs aren't just cleaner, they also come with a number of tax incentives to help individuals and businesses drive electric ...

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tax-road-company

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Tax is often used to change behaviours, as well as raise revenues for public services. That the more rapid adoption of EV as a cleaner technology has been subsidised makes complete sense.

Although some of the benefits are now coming to an end, the key remaining is that tax on electricity is much less than the duty and taxes on fossil fuels. I do not expect this to last.

Lithium is unpleasant - whether better, worse or just different to fossil fuels is debatable. The characteristics which make it unattractive is the reason for extensive research into cheaper and nicer alternatives - sodium-ion being amongst the current favourites.

The media (bless 'em) have focussed on experiences in Detroit which has far colder winters than the UK. In Norway which has equally harsh winters, ~85% of cars currently sold are EV. They seem to manage - so what are our US cousins doing wrong?

The sale of EVs by Hertz may not be just a simplistic customer reaction. The US market is very under-developed compared to the UK:

• about 7% of current US car sales are EV vs ~20% in UK
• total EV fleet in the US is ~1% of cars registered vs ~5% in the UK
• distances travelled tend to be larger (range issues)
• low demand means recharging network unsurprisingly lags (even) the UK

I accept EVs may not suit all. I do not own one but as a 2 car household would actively consider one (probably small and s/h) for more local use and a technology confidence booster.

Strident argument without balance is a triumph of noise and emotion over the rational.

 

[paulrbarnard]

NO!
That's why we're being priced out of driving and well before 2035 we will be under travel restrictions. Our future has already been planned.

Which is why there is massive research in to alternative solutions. Sodium, zinc, iron and dare I say it fusion.
It still amazes me how people conflate what is possible today as being the only viable option in the future. Lithium is the option today for dense storage but technology does not stand still, especially when there is money to be made.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Tax is often used to change behaviours, as well as raise revenues for public services. That the more rapid adoption of EV as a cleaner technology has been subsidised makes complete sense.

Although some of the benefits are now coming to an end, the key remaining is that tax on electricity is much less than the duty and taxes on fossil fuels. I do not expect this to last.

Lithium is unpleasant - whether better, worse or just different to fossil fuels is debatable. The characteristics which make it unattractive is the reason for extensive research into cheaper and nicer alternatives - sodium-ion being amongst the current favourites.

The media (bless 'em) have focussed on experiences in Detroit which has far colder winters than the UK. In Norway which has equally harsh winters, ~85% of cars currently sold are EV. They seem to manage - so what are our US cousins doing wrong?

The sale of EVs by Hertz may not be just a simplistic customer reaction. The US market is very under-developed compared to the UK:

• about 7% of current US car sales are EV vs ~20% in UK
• total EV fleet in the US is ~1% of cars registered vs ~5% in the UK
• distances travelled tend to be larger (range issues)
• low demand means recharging network unsurprisingly lags (even) the UK

I accept EVs may not suit all. I do not own one but as a 2 car household would actively consider one (probably small and s/h) for more local use and a technology confidence booster.

Strident argument without balance is a triumph of noise and emotion over the rational.

The US can not be considered as a single country. The demographics of states varies widely. For example the sales of EV in California is over 20% while Alabama has only 1.8%.
Talking to people in California you typically hear the view that EV are great and very much an aspirational purchase
There is a lot more behind the Hertz story than lack of desire for EV. I was in AVIS in Los Angeles on Wednesday and of the five people in the line two were picking up Tesla’s. Now that might be related to vehicle based road tariffs in the area but does paint a different picture than what you read in the press, well some of it anyway.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I'm already priced out! But who cares? I've got my furry friend, & as long as I can build ships, I don't.

You’ve got a horse for transport? How far is the ride to the ship yard?

 

[Spectric]

Maybe that is why there is so much interest in the moon, not cheese but Lithium resources.

 

[Lons]

The US can not be considered as a single country. The demographics of states varies widely. For example the sales of EV in California is over 20% while Alabama has only 1.8%.
Talking to people in California you typically hear the view that EV are great and very much an aspirational purchase
There is a lot more behind the Hertz story than lack of desire for EV. I was in AVIS in Los Angeles on Wednesday and of the five people in the line two were picking up Tesla’s. Now that might be related to vehicle based road tariffs in the area but does paint a different picture than what you read in the press, well some of it anyway.

I think you'll find that's over simplistic. California is very different to Alabama in average income, property and rent prices, mix of ethnic types and a hell of a lot more. With a large percentage of extreme wealth in the LA area it's hardly surprising that take up of EVs both purchased and rented is a great deal higher.
Try comparing the afluent SE of the Uk with some of the impoverished northern areas and you'll see similar patterns.

EDIT
For example.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Maybe that is why there is so much interest in the moon, not cheese but Lithium resources.

I think you are probably right. While we’re arguing over whether there are enough charging points to maintain our convenient lifestyles the Chinese Government probably have a ten year plan to start extracting it!

 

[paulrbarnard]

I think you'll find that's over simplistic. California is very different to Alabama in average income, property and rent prices, mix of ethnic types and a hell of a lot more. With a large percentage of extreme wealth in the LA area it's hardly surprising that take up of EVs both purchased and rented is a great deal higher.
Try comparing the afluent SE of the Uk with some of the impoverished northern areas and you'll see similar patterns.

EDIT
For example.

That was my largely point. That said the shorter distances involved in the U.K. make us far more homogeneous that in the US.

 

[porker]

Regarding tax incentives, my work has just sent us details of EVs on our salary sacrifice scheme. Apparently, I can save £661/mo as a high rate tax payer. All money in NI and Income tax that would otherwise go to the government. My neighbour who has his own business has one and he told me that his accountant said he could either have that or give it to the tax man.
Around here EVs are very common but seem to be the preserve of the well off - at least for now,