Electric vehicles

[Vulcan]

I am unsurprised at the Ford POV as they would inevitably favour a private ownership model, not one which may likely undermine their very existence.

Free at the point of use is an interesting concept but unlikely to be attractive to most - adoption would need to be forced unless frequency was very high. Although private ownership costs are high, most compare costs of public transport with marginal (mostly fuel) cost of a private car.

It would however be interesting to model the resources required to fully provide a medium size town (population say 60k) with a free at the point of use, frequent, comprehensive and regular public transport service.

Technology has moved on in 50 years. 52% of all trips are less than 3 miles, and 80% less than 10 miles. Only 2% are greater than 50 miles. The optimal solution may be small EV autonomous pods summoned by app for all urban journeys of less than (say) 10 miles.

This would provide 90%+ of the functionality of a private car (door to door, on demand etc) with additional capability - no parking issues, children and disabled users. Design of housing, roads, city centres, retail parks could eliminate much currently devoted to parking spaces.

The typical private car sits idle for 23 hours a day - although there would be demand peaks, utilisation of autonomous EVs would be substantially better.

Some very good points there. You can also add in no car crime and perhaps even less crime in general if, let’s call them Autocabs, have several cameras fitted etc.

 

[Spectric]

Electrified rails have been around for decades

But have a limited use in that they do not work for most high speed trains and there is a safety issue with live rails. It is to do with the contacts, with a catenary the wires zig zag so there is a wiping action across the contact rather than a continous point of contact which would cut a groove. The future could well be the Maglev that solves the bigger issue of friction, it floats on a magnetic field and can reach speeds of 300mph so not much use in the Uk.

 

[J-G]

it floats on a magnetic field and can reach speeds of 300mph so not much use in the Uk. [italic/embold my edit]

The important word there is 'CAN' - and in fact in July 2021 the Chinese CRRC 600 had a planned speed of 370mph - just because a Maglev system CAN achieve these speeds does not mean that they always must do so, I therefore fail to see the point of your final statement about not being much use in the UK.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Maglev raises the "vehicle" above the ground - has the benefit of reducing friction but needs "guide rail(s) to keep it on track.

Future magnetic systems need only propel the "vehicle" forward on wheels which would be needed off the "magnetic" track - this eliminates the need for "guide rail(s)" but increases friction from the wheels - possibly less of an issue at (say) 70 mph.

 

[Vulcan]

But have a limited use in that they do not work for most high speed trains and there is a safety issue with live rails. It is to do with the contacts, with a catenary the wires zig zag so there is a wiping action across the contact rather than a continous point of contact which would cut a groove. The future could well be the Maglev that solves the bigger issue of friction, it floats on a magnetic field and can reach speeds of 300mph so not much use in the Uk.

If electrified rails are such a problem it surprises me they use them at all? Parts of the London Underground have been electrified since 1890. I’m aware of Maglev but suspect it’s far more expensive than ordinary electrification.

 

[Vulcan]

"

Hertz is Selling 20,000 Electric Vehicles To Buy Gasoline Cars Instead​

• 1/11/2024
• 8:42 PM
• Slashdot
• msmash
• Web site view

quonset writes: Hertz rental has announced it's selling off one third of its 20,000 electric vehicle fleet and replacing them with gas powered vehicles. The reason? It's costing them too much to repair damaged EVs and their depreciation is hurting the bottom line. "[C]ollision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle," Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said in a recent analyst call. And EV price declines in the new car market have pushed down the resale value of Hertz's used EV rental cars.
"

The repair side is a fly in Tesla’s Ointment because they don’t have dealerships like legacy auto manufacturers.
This is an opportunity for companies like Volkswagen and Toyota though, if they seize the moment. From what I’ve read, over 90% of “battery replacements” could easily be repaired instead by replacing a few cells. Still early days, hopefully the car industry will work it out.

 

[MikeJhn]

Bring back Brunel's atmospheric railway, only failed as rats kept eating the leather seals around the carriage.

 

[RogerS]

View attachment 173653
The repair side is a fly in Tesla’s Ointment because they don’t have dealerships like legacy auto manufacturers.
This is an opportunity for companies like Volkswagen and Toyota though, if they seize the moment. From what I’ve read, over 90% of “battery replacements” could easily be repaired instead by replacing a few cells. Still early days, hopefully the car industry will work it out.

Repair costs are only one side of he story. From the Telegraph...

Drivers also still want petrol or diesel-powered cars. Hertz said it would “reinvest a portion of the proceeds from the sale of EVs into the purchase of internal combustion engine vehicles to meet customer demand”.

 

[MikeJhn]

It could be that the majority of EV hire's are people trying out the technology to see if it suits their life style, certainly I would not take the plunge without first trying to see if it works for me.

 

[Vulcan]

As already stated by pe2dave, it’s also the loss in value of their EV fleet due to Tesla price cuts. They are though keeping two thirds of their EV’s so I’m guessing there are still enough people that want to rent them?

 

[Rhossydd]

It could be that the majority of EV hire's are people trying out the technology to see if it suits their life style, certainly I would not take the plunge without first trying to see if it works for me.

Possibly, but from what I've read converting to rely on an EV takes quite a degree of commitment. I suspect that few people will be living somewhere with domestic charging facilities that aren't already using them.
As a casual hirer EVs would be(are) a pain. Unlikely to get cheap or low cost charging and needing to download and register apps before you can use public chargers. Especially difficult for rental companies that are hiring to foreign tourists, get an app in their native language ? will the charging network accept their foreign credit card and no local address ? Easy to see why EVs won't be ideal for the rental business.

 

[bilboburgler]

Hertz have a pick up full and return full policy. I think that put me off their brand for EV when I was renting last

 

[Terry - Somerset]

In the US EV sales account for ~7.5% of sales vs 16.5% in the UK.

Their EV "fleet" is 2.5 times the size of the UK for a population 5 times the size.

Distances are inevitably much longer in the US - yet the range of EVs is (I assume) similar to those sold in the UK.

It is no surprise they are a less attractive rental proposition - anyone renting for just a few days will not want to factor in recharging complexities - particularly if they are new to EVs.

In the UK I suspect that rental and lease companies are facing similar pressures. Leases signed on EVs 2-4 years ago made attractive by their tax benefits are now coming to an end.

Not only are new EVs being sold at prices lower than 4 years ago, it is clear that many s/h low mileage EVs are now being priced below their ICE equivalents (I assume) simply to clear excess stock.

 

[sploo]

Useful post of the day:

 

[John Brown]

Useful post of the day:

View attachment 173791

Well, that's says it all..

 

[MikeJhn]

So they where only in Australia, New Zealand, USA and the wrinkly bits down the bottom.

 

[Vulcan]

The Chinese Car market is the biggest in the World. Can European car makers survive such a huge loss in sales to China?
Interesting times ahead.

 

[Vulcan]

I don’t understand it either. Folks say EV’s are too *expensive and until recently I haven’t disagreed so why is an expensive car like the Tesla Model Y selling so well in Europe? EV sales are expected to slow though in 2024 as many motorists are apparently waiting for sub €25K EV’s to arrive next year.
* I read the Dacia Duster EV is going on sale this year at prices rumoured to be anything from €12,500 to £18,000, depending on source.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Possibly the Teslas are bought predominantly by fleet buyers who are given incentives to purchase electric?

 

[Screwed]

Is there going to be enough lithium if everyone goes electric?

NO!
That's why we're being priced out of driving and well before 2035 we will be under travel restrictions. Our future has already been planned.