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'vast majority'....interesting phrase. Do you have any evidence ? Or just wishful thinking ?
Do you dispute this, or are you just being argumentative for fun? Do you really believe that the three-abreast lycra-clad cyclists who annoy the hell out of Mr Toad are cycling because it's their primary mode if transport?
 
Do you dispute this, or are you just being argumentative for fun? Do you really believe that the three-abreast lycra-clad cyclists who annoy the hell out of Mr Toad are cycling because it's their primary mode if transport?
Not at all. I just object to loose English such as 'vast majority' without any evidence to support that statement.
 
Doesn't make any sense at all and you have ignored his first sentence. It is illegal to drive a car or motorbike etc on the road without paying a charge. Call it Road Tax, call it VED...it matters not one wit. It is still a tax. Or are we playing semantics ?
It’s not semantics. You are using that as an excuse.
FWIW. There are cases where I t is perfectly legal to drive a vehicle without VED. The following list are all VED exempt. Exempt means you don’t need it, in case you want to go down the semantic argument again.
  • Vehicles used by a person living with a disability
  • Disabled passenger vehicles used by organisations providing transport for people living with a disability.
  • Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs
  • Vehicles made before 1 January 1981.
  • Electric vehicles (the electricity must come from an external source or an electric storage battery not connected to any source of power when the vehicle is moving).
  • Mowing machines (it must be designed, constructed and used just for cutting grass to be exempt.
  • Steam powered vehicles.
  • Vehicles used for agriculture, horticulture and forestry.
And of course human powered vehicles.
 
I don't understand your statement. Please can you clarify. Where is the legislation that you are suggesting rides roughshod over the concept of SORN ?

PS I don't have any issue at all with the rest of your viewpoint.
I had not mentioned SORN, but yes if you have SORN for your vehicle and it is on private land, ie not the road or public highway that's perfectly legal and safe to do so.
I was referring to not having valid VED.
A vehicle not exempted must have either a SORN or VED, having neither is illegal.

My example would be say an untaxed vehicle, left in a car park, say a train station, although is private land, it has unfettered public access, so is deemed as public highway.
 
It’s not semantics. You are using that as an excuse.
FWIW. There are cases where I t is perfectly legal to drive a vehicle without VED. The following list are all VED exempt. Exempt means you don’t need it, in case you want to go down the semantic argument again.
  • Vehicles used by a person living with a disability
  • Disabled passenger vehicles used by organisations providing transport for people living with a disability.
  • Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs
  • Vehicles made before 1 January 1981.
  • Electric vehicles (the electricity must come from an external source or an electric storage battery not connected to any source of power when the vehicle is moving).
  • Mowing machines (it must be designed, constructed and used just for cutting grass to be exempt.
  • Steam powered vehicles.
  • Vehicles used for agriculture, horticulture and forestry.
And of course human powered vehicles.
Not strictly true, the first two you are given an exemptions from the payment, so its a VED that's zero rate. You still to apply for the VED yearly, but submit your fee exemption proof. The vehicle still has a VED requirement but at zero fee.
The others I think are fully exempt as you say.
 
There are cases where I t is perfectly legal to drive a vehicle without VED. The following list are all VED exempt. Exempt means you don’t need it, in case you want to go down the semantic argument again.
  • Vehicles used by a person living with a disability
  • Disabled passenger vehicles used by organisations providing transport for people living with a disability.
  • Mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs
  • Vehicles made before 1 January 1981.
  • Electric vehicles (the electricity must come from an external source or an electric storage battery not connected to any source of power when the vehicle is moving).
  • Mowing machines (it must be designed, constructed and used just for cutting grass to be exempt.
  • Steam powered vehicles.
  • Vehicles used for agriculture, horticulture and forestry.
And of course human powered vehicles.
Some vehicles being exempt doesn't mean mine isn't taxed.
 
So, pray tell....what are the emissions of an EV ? By your 'logic' they should not pay VED. as they are non-polluting.
Well they're not entirely non-polluting, as long as we still rely on some fossil fuelled power stations, but I said linked, I'm not suggestion a linear relationship. Maybe I should have said loosely coupled.

Can I just point out that a while back, when I commented on one of your posts, you suggested that I was stalking you?
 
VED, RFL, road tax, doesn't matter what you call it it's just political manipulation to deflect criticism of funds not being used for the intended purpose and as far as linking to emissions it's interesting that from April 2025 EVs registered after 1.4.2017 will have to pay VED at the (current) standard rate of £165 pa and additionally will also incur the extra £355 for 5 years if the list price including any extras exeeds £40,000. Benefit in kind to company car drivers is also being slowly increased all of course going into the general pot to be used and abused as the government think fit.
 
Doubtless they will introduce some form of usage related charge.

But for goodness sake stop calling it road tax. There has not been a road tax since 1937. Road tax is the fall back criticism of every anti cyclist in the U.K. Complete idiots who think they own the road because they pay road tax are one of life’s curses.
I’m absolutely certain there are plans somewhere for a “pay per mile” scheme. Which to my mind would be the fairest system. Whether it’s ever going to be implemented is another matter.
 
Road tax is the fall back criticism of every anti cyclist in the U.K. Complete idiots who think they own the road because they pay road tax are one of life’s curses.
In an attempt to lighten the mood; given the last couple of pages of grumpy posts - I can say that I'm a car driver, a cyclist, and a former (motor) biker. I pay road tax/VED/whatever and I'm definitely an ***** who thinks he owns the road.

In the case of bicycles being zero emission, I can also confirm that's not true. After a full fry up somewhere during a long cycling trip there's definitely... how shall I put it... a source of extra propulsion later on.

Anyway, back to arguing semantics about taxation...
 
Personal ownership of cars may be overtaken by autonomous vehicles within the next decade.

The model for many urban dwellers will be a smartphone app to summon a vehicle as and when they need to travel. This eliminates parking issues, insurance, maintenance etc etc. Some already adopt a similar "sharing" model with self drive cars used as required.

Cars will be operational up to 20 hours per day vs an owned car which is used averagely 1 hour per day. When the battery needs charging it will take itself to a remote charging point. Similarly with maintenance.

This is likely to be a transition, not a rapid change. Likely to affect urban rather than small town and rural dwellers. Those with off street charging may continue the ownership model - but I suspect over time autonomous will (a) have a better safety record than fallible humans, and (b) the sharing model will be materially cheaper for most folk.
I believe this is the ultimate goal of many Governments but it will take some time as you suggest. It will have many advantages for society, not least that the less well off will be able to afford personal transport when they need it. For my own personal circumstances I can’t see a problem to an on demand service provided it’s efficient and affordable. It’s been mentioned many times that the driver, be it a mini cab or an HGV is an expensive weak link in the current system.
 
In an attempt to lighten the mood; given the last couple of pages of grumpy posts - I can say that I'm a car driver, a cyclist, and a former (motor) biker. I pay road tax/VED/whatever and I'm definitely an silly person who thinks he owns the road.

In the case of bicycles being zero emission, I can also confirm that's not true. After a full fry up somewhere during a long cycling trip there's definitely... how shall I put it... a source of extra propulsion later on.

Anyway, back to arguing semantics about taxation...
Well of course, and no doubt the physical exertion of cycling will increase your CO2 output as well, but you can fart in a car, and there may be some relationship between exercise, farting and CO2 output that works in favour of the cyclist. I await the study with bated breath and pinched nose.
 
Just to add fuel to the fire (do you see what I did?), the fire at Luton Airport, where I have been employed for the last 18 years, started in a diesel-hybrid Range Rover. Common knowledge localy, don't know why it has been suppressed

Further, I do not now own a car, electric or otherwise and I stopped riding a bicycle when I was 16. I am a Motorcyclist and have been for the past 44 years, the only people that regularly try to kill me on a daily basis are drivers of motor vehicles, electric or otherwise. So in my opinion anything with more than 2 wheels should be banned immediately :whistle:
 
Just to add fuel to the fire (do you see what I did?), the fire at Luton Airport, where I have been employed for the last 18 years, started in a diesel-hybrid Range Rover. Common knowledge localy, don't know why it has been suppressed
Thanks for this information, Andy. I now want to know why the local expert, Mr Hopkinson, has failed to inform the public. Presumably, almost three months after the event he must know what really happened. I cannot find any trace of an official Fire Service investigation report.

It seems unlikely that the car park system does not retain all of the registrations of every vehicle entering and leaving the car parks at Luton Airport. Presumably, a simple request to DVLA on the day after the fire would have revealed the car model. If the car was pre-booked into the car park, it may even be a required part of the car park requested details at the time of booking.
 

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