Electric vehicles

[Mikebart]

Let’s have a revolution, do away with Politicians, ruling class, rich people, stupid people, share the wealth evenly and life will be wonderful.

 

[selectortone]

I raise this point because other issues have become obvious post the Luton airport car park fire.

You keep banging on about this Luton car park fire as if it was caused by an EV. If there was any evidence, the anti-EV lobby would be all over it like a rash. The only suggestions about an EV causing the fire are posts on social media. 'I bet it was an EV' for example. This is not evidence.

The Bedfordshire fire chief has said it was caused by a diesel vehicle, but of course what does he know, he's only an expert.

 

[sploo]

The Bedfordshire fire chief has said it was caused by a diesel vehicle, but of course what does he know, he's only an expert.

Indeed.

I guess we, as a nation, "had enough of experts". That went just as well.

 

[Blackswanwood]

@jepho - this may be of interest on the issue of the Luton Fire and the likelihood of EV’s catching fire …

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clini...findings from various,anti-EV agenda or bias.
You mentioned an insurer refusing to pay a claim on a car involved in the fire earlier. A quick search shows several sources confirming most claims have been settled suggesting there is not a problem with insurance cover for those who lost their cars. The Daily Mail caught on to the issue of the value of a used car not being what the policyholder expected - that didn‘t relate to an EV in the case they covered but could equally have applied to an EV or ICE car.

 

[John Brown]

Let’s have a revolution, do away with Politicians, ruling class, rich people, stupid people, share the wealth evenly and life will be wonderful.

Or half a revolution, as my father was fond of pointing out. A full revolution gets you back to where you started.

 

[Ozi]

I would have thought the enormous piles would only be good for the garden!

Think I'd rather have enormous piles than most of our politicians

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Let’s have a revolution, do away with Politicians, ruling class, rich people, stupid people, share the wealth evenly and life will be wonderful.

You are Jacob and I claim my £5.

 

[DrPhill]

??? I am not sure that I understand you. Are you suggesting that there is no need for social movement, i.e. that everyone should stay in their dwellings and meet online only?

i am suggesting that communal transportation should be a much larger part of the mix. Good public transport, well designed cities and towns that make walking and cycling more practical.

Add good rail networks for longer journeys and freight. Canals even for bulky goods that have no ’best by’ date.

we are fixated on single-occupancy heavy status symbols that use ridiculous amounts of resources for the good they provide. Then we spend huge amounts of ingenuity trying to make the poor solution work. Or work slightly better.

 

[bilboburgler]

Charging on streets is pretty normal around Europe with connections into lamp standards pretty common in Amsterdam, last time I was there. The technology for charging, connection etc is all developed. But in the UK it will be too difficult, as normal. I've been helping a local councillor improve a local small car park that acts as unofficial parking for 10 or 12 houses around. I found the technology to put it in place, I even found organisations to fund the installation for the councillor, but he declined to push it through. Habitual behaviour and an inability to move away from it suggests some sort of illness. See also other technology changes.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Personal ownership of cars may be overtaken by autonomous vehicles within the next decade.

The model for many urban dwellers will be a smartphone app to summon a vehicle as and when they need to travel. This eliminates parking issues, insurance, maintenance etc etc. Some already adopt a similar "sharing" model with self drive cars used as required.

Cars will be operational up to 20 hours per day vs an owned car which is used averagely 1 hour per day. When the battery needs charging it will take itself to a remote charging point. Similarly with maintenance.

This is likely to be a transition, not a rapid change. Likely to affect urban rather than small town and rural dwellers. Those with off street charging may continue the ownership model - but I suspect over time autonomous will (a) have a better safety record than fallible humans, and (b) the sharing model will be materially cheaper for most folk.

 

[Just4Fun]

Is there a business case for installing a charge point and charging motorists to recharge their EVs? Suppose you owned a pub, or lived opposite one. Anywhere that people might go and spend some time so they might like to charge their vehicle while they are there. Would it be legal and worthwhile to do that on a small scale?

 

[user 43593]

i am suggesting that communal transportation should be a much larger part of the mix.

No argument against that proposition from me

Good public transport, well designed cities and towns that make walking and cycling more practical.

Once again, I cannot offer any argument against your proposal. On the other hand we are not starting from a blank slate and my question concerns the current infrastructure, which is serving the UK as we speak. What would you remove and how would you achieve that, while building the urban areas that you posit?

Add good rail networks for longer journeys and freight.

Prima facie, this sounds entirely sensible. I am old enough to remember that Richard Beeching closed a significant amount of British Railways in the early 1960s. per Wikipedia ~ The first report identified 2,363 stations and 5,000 miles (8,000 km) of railway line for closure, amounting to 55% of stations, 30% of route miles, and the loss of 67,700 British Rail jobs.

The various privatised portions of the remaining railway service do not cooperate with each other. This ensures that any senses of a national service are lost and trying to plan a journey using several services can be challenging. Finally, why can I fly on a return journey to Edinburgh and back, cheaper than I can take a train in one direction? Very little about that situation screams egalitarian public transportation.

Canals even for bulky goods that have no ’best by’ date.

I have no argument with the proposition, with one proviso... People who currently live on houseboats, which travel along our canal system, should preferably not be made to suffer because of our continuous aand successive govermental failures to invest heavily in public transport across the whole of the UK since post WWII.

we are fixated on single-occupancy heavy status symbols that use ridiculous amounts of resources for the good they provide. Then we spend huge amounts of ingenuity trying to make the poor solution work. Or work slightly better.

The chaotic mess of public transportation in the UK is mute witness to the notion that not one iota of ingenuity has been applied. When I was in Hungary, I was based in Budapest. The capital city has very wide streets (often 6 or 8 lanes wide) and the private car is a luxury even to many middle class households. The public transportation system is outstanding and a beacon of excellence.

All transport (trains, metro, buses, trolley buses, trams (two types) use the same nomenclature for stops on the route. Bus stops show the stops remaining in bold type so you know which direction it is travelling. Trains, metro, intercity trains and various bus types all have an announcement system for every stop in both Hungarian and English. Travelling anywhere in the country one can plan a route and expect to find a connecting train awaiting passengers brought to it by another service.

Crossing a road is easy because all Budapest traffic lights are set for a one minute cycle time so no one is going to arrive at a red traffic light and wait for more than one minute. Finally... once you reach pension age, every part of the public transportation system in Hungary is free no matter how far you wish to travel or by which service.

 

[Sachakins]

Personal ownership of cars may be overtaken by autonomous vehicles within the next decade.

The model for many urban dwellers will be a smartphone app to summon a vehicle as and when they need to travel. This eliminates parking issues, insurance, maintenance etc etc. Some already adopt a similar "sharing" model with self drive cars used as required.

Cars will be operational up to 20 hours per day vs an owned car which is used averagely 1 hour per day. When the battery needs charging it will take itself to a remote charging point. Similarly with maintenance.

This is likely to be a transition, not a rapid change. Likely to affect urban rather than small town and rural dwellers. Those with off street charging may continue the ownership model - but I suspect over time autonomous will (a) have a better safety record than fallible humans, and (b) the sharing model will be materially cheaper for most folk.

Couple of points.
You can summon a vehicle today as you need it, its called a taxi.
Summoning and getting a vehicle as you need it is a fallacy. Reality is vehicle demand will rise significantly during peak periods, requiring excessive number of vehicles to meet demand rapidly. During off peake demand the excess fleet will sit idle for 20 hours a day, so no gain there.

By the hour rent and go has been tried often,, and the companies have ceased trading quickly, too costly for companies to break even, let alone make a profit.

Cheers

 

[llywmog]

You keep banging on about this Luton car park fire as if it was caused by an EV. If there was any evidence, the anti-EV lobby would be all over it like a rash. The only suggestions about an EV causing the fire are posts on social media. 'I bet it was an EV' for example. This is not evidence.

The Bedfordshire fire chief has said it was caused by a diesel vehicle, but of course what does he know, he's only an expert.

and even if it were true, they should check this:

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-vehicles
“All the data shows that EVs are just much, much less likely to set on fire than their petrol equivalent,” said Colin Walker, the head of transport at the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit thinktank. “The many, many fires that you have for petrol or diesel cars just aren’t reported.”

 

[stuart little]

No really it doesn’t. What you pay now is Vehicle Excise Duty. It is not the same as “Road Tax”. VED is a tax based on emmisions and is a contributor to general taxation. It is not ring fenced for roads. As per my previous reply to Phil VED is greater than the cost of roads. However it’s a false argument to state VED covers roads. The reality is a proportion of general taxation, which includes VED pays for roads, in exactly the same way as it pays for the NHS and other state initiatives. Someone who doesn’t pay VED is still contributing to roads in the same way as someone who pays no tax but does pay VED is contributing to HS2.

Edit: Because there is a tendency for “Anti” arguments to focus on things that fit their perspective I've added some more background. Cost of roads falls in to two different categories. New roads and road maintenance. New roads and upgrades are funded through DfT, maintenance is through local authorities. It is all too easy to compare apples and oranges. VED revenue is greater than the cost of new roads, which is what Road Tax was introduced in 1920 to cover. Road tax was ring fenced for new road construction. Road tax ended in 1937. VED is less than the full cost of roads when including maintenance. Maintenance of roads has always been from general taxation even when there was “Road Tax”. A clear issue is that heavier vehicles cause more damage to roads than light vehicles and that’s a problem. A road usage tax (like fuel duty) is going to be needed in the future. But that’s a different discussion.

When 'road tax', as it was, ended it was then used initially to fund benefits.

 

[MikeJhn]

"The many many fires that you have for petrol or diesel cars just aren't reported" and caused by electrical faults or badly maintained cars.

Lots of talk of insurance companies not paying out, the only way this can happen is if the claim is false or was obtained under false pretences, you have a contract with your insurance company and both you and they have to abide by that contract, if a claim is not honoured its because the claimant has not told the truth somewhere either before or during any claim.

 

[sploo]

Is there a business case for installing a charge point and charging motorists to recharge their EVs? Suppose you owned a pub, or lived opposite one. Anywhere that people might go and spend some time so they might like to charge their vehicle while they are there. Would it be legal and worthwhile to do that on a small scale?

I can't comment on the legal issues, but the latest generation of standards for EV chargers would allow for the ability to define charging periods/tariffs, and methods of payment. Obviously a charger with that functionality would not be required for home users, so it'd a commercial model/brand. But I can't see any reason why it would not be possible to produce a small/medium EV charger with those facilities, for purchase by end users who wish to provide a public charger.

I suspect such a supplier would also have to provide the billing/credit card back-end; such that you (as the owner) sign up to their service, decide on an appropriate tariff, and then they take a cut of the profit for providing the service.

The main issue might be that smaller chargers (e.g. in a pub car park) may not have access to the higher power levels required to charge a car rapidly; such that you could provide an EV charger, but if it's one that's going to take 8 hours to charge a car then it probably wouldn't get much business.

 

[Just4Fun]

The main issue might be that smaller chargers (e.g. in a pub car park) may not have access to the higher power levels required to charge a car rapidly; such that you could provide an EV charger, but if it's one that's going to take 8 hours to charge a car then it probably wouldn't get much business.

So I have to stay in the pub for 8 hours? Oh, OK then. I'll have another.

 

[Ozi]

This is a very valid point - doesn't fit with my agenda unfortunately

 

[Phil Pascoe]

VED and Road Tax are different entities? Semantics. We have to pay VED if we take our car on the road, therefore it's road tax.