Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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Certainly nice, but (unfortunately) at a starting price of 430 000 euro I am not in their target market.
clogs
just can't decide
the Alpha looks very similar to the Lancia Fulvia 1.6, HF.....
finished my apprentiship with them at the factory in Alperton, London...
plus as a tease I got to drive the RAC rally winning car thru Wembly.......
finished my apprentiship with them at the factory in Alperton, London...
plus as a tease I got to drive the RAC rally winning car thru Wembly.......
Sorry guys, yes I was quoting cost per KWh.
RogerS
Established Member
stimpy
Established Member
Hello chaps... ( First post) Beautiful cars!! But insane money when converted to that spec... I'd like to convert one of my cars at some point, would be an interesting project
Electric vehicles have improved to the point that I am considering buying one when I next change my car, possibly next summer. With that in mind I have been doing some research on the 'net and there are some things I cannot find information about.
The first, and most serious for me, is how much range drops in winter due to lower battery performance plus using heaters, demisters, seat heaters etc. Tests described as "harsh winter conditions" seem to be in -5C or so. I need to cope with -20C or -30C. Stopping more often to recharge in these conditions is not an attractive proposition so I hope range doesn't drop too much, but I am not optimistic.
Also connected with winter conditions is the lack of a park option. In a normal manual gearbox car I park it in gear. With an automatice gearbox I park it in park (duh). Some electric vehicles only have forward, reverse and neutral. Does this mean you have to park with the handbrake on? If I do that it might freeze on.
The other issue is regenerative braking to put energy back into the batteries when slowing down or going down hill. Many (most?) electric cars have an adjustable version of this but I don't understand why. I would have thought you would always want the maximum energy recovery possible. What advantage is there to having little or none?
The first, and most serious for me, is how much range drops in winter due to lower battery performance plus using heaters, demisters, seat heaters etc. Tests described as "harsh winter conditions" seem to be in -5C or so. I need to cope with -20C or -30C. Stopping more often to recharge in these conditions is not an attractive proposition so I hope range doesn't drop too much, but I am not optimistic.
Also connected with winter conditions is the lack of a park option. In a normal manual gearbox car I park it in gear. With an automatice gearbox I park it in park (duh). Some electric vehicles only have forward, reverse and neutral. Does this mean you have to park with the handbrake on? If I do that it might freeze on.
The other issue is regenerative braking to put energy back into the batteries when slowing down or going down hill. Many (most?) electric cars have an adjustable version of this but I don't understand why. I would have thought you would always want the maximum energy recovery possible. What advantage is there to having little or none?
NikNak
Established Member
@Just4Fun I'm also interested. Have just put 'ev in sub zero temperature' into you tube and there's several interesting videos from ev owners.
Having test driven an ev (albeit briefly) the adjustable regen is very handy. In town with max regen selected you can almost get away with braking. But on a motorway should you wish to slow down for whatever reason, then i personally wouldn't like the car to suddenly slow if you eased of the pedal.
Having test driven an ev (albeit briefly) the adjustable regen is very handy. In town with max regen selected you can almost get away with braking. But on a motorway should you wish to slow down for whatever reason, then i personally wouldn't like the car to suddenly slow if you eased of the pedal.
Thanks. I have watched a load of those but they are written by people who regard -5C as extremely cold. Yes, it is sub-zero but nowhere near the winter temperatures I experience. I have seen some tests that say range will drop by 25% to 40% in a UK winter and I am afraid that here the drop could be 50% or worse and that would kill the idea of an EV for me.
I think I will try some test drives in January or February to find out for myself. That will also let me experience the regen for myself as I don't really see the issue.
NikNak
Established Member
This one is particularly good re cold temps....
hmmm ... interesting. Also discouraging. I had not seen that video before, so thanks for that.
I would consider an EV with a range of over 300km. This does not seem to be a problem in summer but the video suggests it is not likely in winter. That really puts me off.
I would consider an EV with a range of over 300km. This does not seem to be a problem in summer but the video suggests it is not likely in winter. That really puts me off.
I can't answer the cold question, as you say a test drive in winter is indicated. There is a noticeable difference between winter and summer due to the heating and lighting but I can only roughly quantify it: if I put the heater on (which is an efficient heat pump) the predicted range drops about 10 miles on my Nissan Leaf (max range in summer about 150 miles realistic; I almost always get 3.8 m /kW and it is 40 kW).
I normally leave the regenerative braking on max, even on a motorway. I am an old geezer not a boy racer and the power surge is fine even on that, in fact I can spin the tyres on a standing start if I ram the pedal down (which I don't !). The braking is nothing like as hard as touching the brake pedal. The feel of the driving is different, though, and it takes a little while to get used to one-pedal driving, but now I almost always do. However, when manoeuvring to park, say, it is easier to switch it off, otherwise it is a bit too start/stop. Control with the brake is easier and more like what one has learned. On the whole though, low speed control is excellent. And it has both Park and Neutral settings.
I normally leave the regenerative braking on max, even on a motorway. I am an old geezer not a boy racer and the power surge is fine even on that, in fact I can spin the tyres on a standing start if I ram the pedal down (which I don't !). The braking is nothing like as hard as touching the brake pedal. The feel of the driving is different, though, and it takes a little while to get used to one-pedal driving, but now I almost always do. However, when manoeuvring to park, say, it is easier to switch it off, otherwise it is a bit too start/stop. Control with the brake is easier and more like what one has learned. On the whole though, low speed control is excellent. And it has both Park and Neutral settings.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
If regenerative braking similar to appyling the brakes, a high level of "braking assistance" in snow or ice could be a real safety concern
Thanks, that is useful information. In my case I had ignored the lighting issue because we have to have the lights on even in daylight here, so I don't imagine there would be much difference between winter and summer driving, especially if the vehicle has LED lights which are lower wattage than halogen anyway. The heater is more of an issue, especially as it would probably be needed continuously in winter. Battery performance is likely to be the elephant in the room though (I guess).
I had not considered how regen might affect parking, so that is a new angle.
Oh, now that is another good point I had not considered. I can see some off-road testing in my future.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
@Just4Fun have a look at bjorn Nylands channel - he lives in norway and is a very well know BEV tester and youtube "jurno". He is a Tesla and an MG owner.
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland
he does a regular 1000km challenge with all the BEV on the market in norway
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland
he does a regular 1000km challenge with all the BEV on the market in norway
Just taken delivery of an electric mini so by no means an electric car expert but some observations for those thinking of taking the plunge.
1. The range of the mini is reported to be a little less than 150 miles. Fine for me, I tend to do <30 miles a day these days and I had a home charger installed so as soon as I get home I just put the car on over-night charge (cheap 5p per kWh tariff) just as I do my phone, but maybe impractical if you commute a long distance unless you have a charger at work.
2. Today is a cold day (near freezing) and the car at 100% charge is saying its range is 110 miles so I assume this is the effect of temperature drop on the batteries.
3. Car has a 'conditioning' option which means that with the car plugged in (to the charger) it can turn on the heating/air conditioning so that the car is up to a comfortable temperature when I am ready to drive off. This apparently is to help reduce that initial power 'hit' that happens on a cold frosty morning with heater and everything else turned on. It also has heated seats whose purpose I think is to reduce the amount of cabin heating you actually need (although of course the seat heaters consume power).
4. Driving it is quite novel. OIn this car there are two levels of regenerative power options. The less agressive (and therefore less effective) mode is aimed at congested city driving when the more agressive mode might lead to a less smooth drive. In either case it seems to be just a matter of tailoring your driving style to account for this account when you take your foot off the accelator. It definately slows down more agressively than a petrol mini so it is perfectly feasibly to just use the accelator pedal in normal driving conditions.
I hope that this doesn't sound like some sort of ad. Its not meant to be, I've leased the car for a couple of years to see how well, or not, an electric car fits my lifestyle. So far, so good and I I'm quite enjoying the 'challenge' of eeking out the charge when I am out driving.
1. The range of the mini is reported to be a little less than 150 miles. Fine for me, I tend to do <30 miles a day these days and I had a home charger installed so as soon as I get home I just put the car on over-night charge (cheap 5p per kWh tariff) just as I do my phone, but maybe impractical if you commute a long distance unless you have a charger at work.
2. Today is a cold day (near freezing) and the car at 100% charge is saying its range is 110 miles so I assume this is the effect of temperature drop on the batteries.
3. Car has a 'conditioning' option which means that with the car plugged in (to the charger) it can turn on the heating/air conditioning so that the car is up to a comfortable temperature when I am ready to drive off. This apparently is to help reduce that initial power 'hit' that happens on a cold frosty morning with heater and everything else turned on. It also has heated seats whose purpose I think is to reduce the amount of cabin heating you actually need (although of course the seat heaters consume power).
4. Driving it is quite novel. OIn this car there are two levels of regenerative power options. The less agressive (and therefore less effective) mode is aimed at congested city driving when the more agressive mode might lead to a less smooth drive. In either case it seems to be just a matter of tailoring your driving style to account for this account when you take your foot off the accelator. It definately slows down more agressively than a petrol mini so it is perfectly feasibly to just use the accelator pedal in normal driving conditions.
I hope that this doesn't sound like some sort of ad. Its not meant to be, I've leased the car for a couple of years to see how well, or not, an electric car fits my lifestyle. So far, so good and I I'm quite enjoying the 'challenge' of eeking out the charge when I am out driving.
Thanks for the suggestion but I have seen a lot of his videos and they don't really help. He is an example of people who refer to -5C as harsh winter conditions. I was happy to find one video of his with a test in -36C until I watched it and all he was really testing was whether he could sleep in the car at those temperatures. Not something that interests me. Yes, he has a lot of videos but it is impossible to hone in on the information I seek.
profchris
Established Member
Here's a short piece quoting a journalist who drives a Tesla in the Artic Circle - looks positive but without the numbers you want. But searching for the journalist of publication quoted might find you more information.
https://electrek.co/2020/02/11/tesla-model-3-arctic-circle-winter/
Thanks. That is an interesting article, despite a lack of hard data. It seems that the author's goals are not the same as mine though. For example, he writes:
(My emphasis)
This suggests that he needs to stop at multiple chargers in order to do 600 km in one day. My aim is different. A regular trip is 300 km each way. Currently in a conventional car I make sure the tank is full the day before so the car can get there and back without stopping. Ideally I would want an electric car to drive the 300 km there without a stop, recharge at the destination, then get home again without a stop. In summer this seems possible but in winter I have my doubts. So a stop to recharge seems inevitable in each direction. If each stop takes an hour that adds 2 hours to an already long day; enough to discard the idea of an electric vehicle.
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