Earning a living from wood working

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Escudo":1zi1tdsq said:
I am a practising Chartered Accountant

Karl":1zi1tdsq said:
I know how accountants treat VAT - I used to be one

Tierney":1zi1tdsq said:
I'm an accountant, and I've been dreaming about becoming a cabinetmaker

There seems to be a theme developing here! :D


Seriously, I don't think a cabinetmaker has any more a precarious existence than any other self-employed person. The important thing is to view one's business as a business, not an outlet for one's creative flair.

If one gets the opportunity to flex one's creative muscles now and again, once all the bills have been paid, then this can be viewed as a bonus.

The other bonus is that that all those lovely tools and machines can be set against your tax liability...













...but get a good accountant!

:lol:

Cheers
Dan
 
Not wishing to imply anything about the cognoscenti that people this site, and admitting to being a part-qualified accountant myself......many moons ago I had occasion to refer to the regular (monthly?) UK national bankruptcy publication (listed all those made bankrupt in the pervious month, the name has long since disappeared from my memory)....anyhow.....it always amused me that there were two categories of business that seemed to jointly achieve the most number of appearances in said list.

Yes, you've guessed it of course, one was aerial erectors (?!) and the other was accountants.............I also seem to recall taxi firms and book-keepers weren't too far behind
 
Yes, you've guessed it of course, one was aerial erectors (?!

I thought they usually ended up falling off the roof. Two I knew did.

Roy.
 
8) I think there is a clear distinction between the professional and the enthusiastic amateur who would like to earn 'a few bob' from his hobby.
The pro will have built up his clientele but the guy in the shed hasn't a clue where to start.
Anybody remember 'Hade and Moss' a few years ago.? They were two guys who had the bright idea of asking people to make good furniture which they would sell at a once off auction. ?
I still think its a great idea but it flopped leaving them about 20k out of pocket.
Otherwise the hobby maker has to market his wares as best he can and personally I'm going to try *bay to see if there are any takers.

cheers.
 
start small and build it up,your work will sell its self

I finished working for a handbuilt kitchen company last year,there where 3 directors only 1 had any woodwork/engeniring background the other two were financial inputs,they had the more power attitude they spent so much money on p.r you wouldent beleave ,there way of working was to take 90% or so up front.They were there to make money first and it showed when problems started appear in the ferniture when it came to fit.

good luck with you venture,and if you ever need a good fitter

:wink:
 
Luckily i had a shop start me off, I get £1000-£1800 worth of furniture orders a week, I have 3 other shops i deal with now. A letter from shop no1 guaranteeing this amount per week got the bank manager into action, Someone with no experience in running a business Ive been in full production since the start of March and turned over £26k.

I worked like a dog for other companies and i do the same and more for myself, 7-7 somedays. Im not allowed to make any noise after then but im sure i would stay later if i could sometimes.
My drawings are £150 a week, Luckily im in the position to not need huge amounts of money to keep my life running, Plus why take loads of money out of a business if youre always working!. Im taxed on my profits not what i pay myself as i am sole trader.

It was a big decision for me to start up in Business, Like i said im lucky to be given a start which i couldnt refuse, Ive learned alot in the last few months and soon looking to take on a trainee, I can then look for more work and a bigger unit with more retail prospects and hopefully supply timber cut to size for people with DIY projects.

If your work is good, word of mouth soons gets you business too, If you like to bimble about in the workshop and enjoy it keep it for a hobby, If you want to make some money give up all your time and go for it.

If you dont try youll never know
 
bluezephyr":24uyd5rp said:
Luckily i had a shop start me off, I get £1000-£1800 worth of furniture orders a week, I have 3 other shops i deal with now. A letter from shop no1 guaranteeing this amount per week got the bank manager into action, Someone with no experience in running a business Ive been in full production since the start of March and turned over £26k.

I worked like a dog for other companies and i do the same and more for myself, 7-7 somedays. Im not allowed to make any noise after then but im sure i would stay later if i could sometimes.
My drawings are £150 a week, Luckily im in the position to not need huge amounts of money to keep my life running, Plus why take loads of money out of a business if youre always working!. Im taxed on my profits not what i pay myself as i am sole trader.

It was a big decision for me to start up in Business, Like i said im lucky to be given a start which i couldnt refuse, Ive learned alot in the last few months and soon looking to take on a trainee, I can then look for more work and a bigger unit with more retail prospects and hopefully supply timber cut to size for people with DIY projects.

If your work is good, word of mouth soons gets you business too, If you like to bimble about in the workshop and enjoy it keep it for a hobby, If you want to make some money give up all your time and go for it.

If you dont try youll never know

I'm glad its going well BZ, but I think you can guess what I'm going to say!

I can well understand the attraction of working with a retailer when you are getting started; he can guarantee you a core level of business enabling you to get your enterprise up and running and allow you to concentrate on making furniture.

However, as a long term business model, forget it!

I got into cabinetmaking through the pine furniture trade, in which I spent over 20 years. In that time I got to know well an awful lot of small manufacturers who started off just like you supplying a few local shops. Even when pine furniture was very fashionable, only the shops made any money out of it!

The small manufacturers have now all gone bust. Even the guys who grew their businesses into big concerns have virtually all gone bust. Those that survive now mainly import oak furniture from China instead of making pine furniture here.

IMHO the only way forward for a small furniture maker is to sell direct to the public, and to specialise in one-off, custom-made pieces or fitted projects.

You are making £1000 worth of furniture a week at trade prices and paying yourself £150. That is £2000 worth at retail prices!

If we split the difference and said that you could sell and make £1500 worth a week retail, I am sure that you could be paying yourself at least £500 a week and still be retaining profits in the business.

I would retain the shop that you are dealing with, but look to expand via commissions from members of the public. I promise you that within six months you will be explaining to the retailer that unfortunately you will not be able to supply him any more as your own retail business is flying.

You need to be planning your exit strategy from supplying shops. Why sell at half price?

I speak from experience. I've been there myself - and gone bust doing exactly what you are planning!

If you want a chat PM me for my phone no.

Cheers
Dan
 
ginsters":13t1ttb3 said:
start small and build it up,your work will sell its self

I finished working for a handbuilt kitchen company last year,there where 3 directors only 1 had any woodwork/engeniring background the other two were financial inputs,they had the more power attitude they spent so much money on p.r you wouldent beleave ,there way of working was to take 90% or so up front.They were there to make money first and it showed when problems started appear in the ferniture when it came to fit.

good luck with you venture,and if you ever need a good fitter

:wink:

Ginsters, you should really let us all know where you are, somebody here may be looking for a good fitter and may just presume that you are west country making pies!

Dan Toovey
Sorry I missed this thread I would have been along earlier to support you. I do as you said earlier make a living from woodworking, I am vat registered as I am way over the vat threshold but I do understand all your comments and kinda agree (I think I just charge more). I think really that being in business is exactly that and it doesn't matter what you make/ sell it's always the same, you work hard sell well get some lucky breaks and make a good living or you could just do a 9 - 5 and jointhe masses. I think Mister Henderson is probably right in some ways but why is he so completely negative.
Simon
 
Interesting Dan..........very interesting. Every time I get bored of drawing I wonder about trying to sell a bit of furniture for a living instead. I reckon that making the decent furniture is probably the easy bit.......it is the selling of it, and the dealing with customers, which would be the difficult side of the business.

I should read your post out loud every time I have this thought.......

Mike
 
Mike Garnham":6b8t46qb said:
Interesting Dan..........very interesting. Every time I get bored of drawing, I wonder about trying to sell a bit of furniture for a living instead. I reckon that making the decent furniture is probably the easy bit.......it is the selling of it, and the dealing with customers, which would the difficult side of the business.

I should read your post out loud every time I have this thought.......

Mike

You're right, great design, however, will sell itself.
 
Yesterday, I went to an "arts festival" there was a bespoke cabinet maker there.

His designs were beautiful and I spent time chatting to him between "prospective clients".

He was selling stuff at a very high price - 6 chairs & a dining table for just under £10K!!

Now.........I reckon I could have made the stuff to the same "finish quality" as his (and as others would attest I ain't very good!). But what I could not do is "sell" like he did to the type of people with that sort of money to spend. Nor could I come up with the designs.

Watching him with the "clients" was quite an eye opener. Not once did he mention the time that went into the job nor "you get what you pay for". His ability to read timewasters and real thing was amazing.

My guess is the best craftsman in the country would not survive without the other skills.
 
As I mentioned on another post I once hired my daughter to sell re conned domestic appliances. She can't handle a screwdriver, but she could freezers to Eskimos!
Everybody can learn, but as in woodwork there is the difference between those who have a flair and those who don't.

Roy.
 
What about chainsaw carving, then?

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3432

I find it very hard to believe, but a lot of these carvers reckon a mushroom like the ones in the thread would sell for £50-100 or so. Smaller ones, which can be done in 10 minutes with a bit of practice, would go at £20 each, as fast as you can make them. Some of the other sculptures there look ok now, but they will all split within a year. The material he's using is tree surgery waste, and would only ever go for firewood..£25/ton or so.
 
ive done a fair bit of that kind of thing and i'd tend to agree that they sell tho its more realistic to reckon about 30 mins per mushie rather than 10 - taking into account tool downtime , blade sharpening, refuelling etc.

so thats only £40 per hour gross - which when you take into account all the other things you have to do (selling, admin, cleaning the workshop, machinery maintenance, travelling to shows, days off, sick time etc) and all your deductions and tax isnt going to be that great.

there arent many people who earn a living soley from selling chainsaw carvings - most are either tree surgeons, foresters, arborists, countryside proffesionals (that's me) doing a bit on the side , or if they do carve full time they are also being paid for doing demonstrations and courses etc.

like everything else mentioned on this thread it can bring in a bob or two but it isnt an easy life or a cake walk that it may first appear.
 
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