Core tool kit

[Jacob]

Just having a look at Rob's efforts over there.
All arguable of course but the one thing conspicuously wrong is the choice of wheel marking gauge. These are inferior to the trad wooden gauge, and 10 to 20 times the price. :shock: And you need to have several on hand eventually.
Just another modern fashion from Veritas, popular with tool sellers but best ignored.

 

[Noggsy]

Unless you're infallible Jacob, I would argue that very little is inarguable. I've got a wheel marking gauge and, for me, it gives far better (more consistent) results than my wooden ones. That's not to say that the wooden ones aren't excellent tools, they just suit me less.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Noggsy,

I've got a wheel marking gauge and, for me, it gives far better (more consistent) results than my wooden ones.

How do you find it in oak?

Thanks,
Neil

 

[RogerBoyle]

Just having a look at Rob's efforts over there.
All arguable of course but the one thing conspicuously wrong is the choice of wheel marking gauge. These are inferior to the trad wooden gauge, and 10 to 20 times the price. :shock: And you need to have several on hand eventually.
Just another modern fashion from Veritas, popular with tool sellers but best ignored.

Who really cares what is posted on another forum :duno:
If you care that much why not reply on the other forum :twisted:

 

[Jacob]

Hi Noggsy,

I've got a wheel marking gauge and, for me, it gives far better (more consistent) results than my wooden ones.

How do you find it in oak?

Thanks,
Neil

The old woodies are infallible on oak or anything else.
The selling point of the metal ones seems to be around trivial problems with the wooden sort which anybody might encounter on first use. Given half an hour of practice and these problems disappear forever. But you would never know that if you have gone for an expensive steel one instead, or spent several hours pointlessly modifying one, as is suggested in some quarters.

 

[Noggsy]

Neil, I find it crisp and easy to use in oak.

 

[Jacob]

....
Who really cares what is posted on another forum :duno:
If you care that much why not reply on the other forum :twisted:

I think you have to be a mod over there, before you can post. Seems to be all chiefs (including Axminster tool reps :roll: ) and no indians.

 

[Jacob]

:lol: And he has forgotten the double sided oilstone!
Perhaps instead he will include an Axminster brochure listing all the crazy sharpening options. Get them young and you've got them for life.

 

[Doug B]

I think you have to be a mod over there, before you can post. Seems to be all chiefs (including Axminster tool reps :roll: ) and no indians.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You noticed that as well :roll:

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The question of a what should be in a core tool kit, if it's addressed in the right spirit, is quite a good talking point. In common with many open questions, there's no 'right' answer, of course, but batting ideas around could be fun!

I suspect for most of us, the question was rather bypassed by circumstance. We had a few tools, added a few more because we found by experience that we needed them or because we came across them on our travels, and worked from there. My semi-starting point was the list Charles Hayward put together in 'Teach Yourself Carpentry', about the only woodwork book which resided on my father's bookshelves, but with modifications because technology had moved on since the book was written, or because Texas Homecare had never heard of some of them! Discovering the finer tool sellers came later, with the purchase of my first woodwork mag in W H Smith's.

Most of us, I suspect, have accumulated tools we thought we might need, but eventually found we didn't. I've got a lovely little small scraper plane bought in a fit of enthusiasm when Lie-Nielsen first produced them. It sits virtually unused to this day. If a card scraper won't do it, the number 80 does. Then there's the urge that overtakes some to have 'one of everything' - every Bailey bench plane from 2 to 8, including the halves. A number 1 too, if possible! Some of us stop at a couple of smoothers, a jointer and a jack. Mind you, I'm not saying how many chisels have found me!

Eventually, we find we have the tools we need, and subsequent acquisitions are for interest or because we just couldn't pass up opportunities. So, whilst I can see the point of apprentice tool lists for Tech. Colleges or similar formal courses, for most of us amateurs they're something we find out rather late in the day, after we assembled the beginnings of a kit!

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Wheel marking gauges are inferior to traditional wooden ones, eh? Wheel gauges hold their settings well, mark with, across and in end grain equally crisply, are not affected by seasonal movement (heads don't become wobbly on the shaft, or too stiff to move when it's raining out!) and as mentioned above, by their detractor were devised to solve the issues encounterd with wooden gauges, which they succeed in doing. Where does the inferiority lie exactly? If by inferior, it is meant price, then there are many cheap wheel gauges and expensive wooden ones, if one shops around. Pin type gauges can be a PITA and knife gauges are superior in any event, made of wood or whatever. A line marked with a pin gauge is double bevelled and for accurate work, a no no. They need modification by making the pin effectively into a knife edge, which is fine, but pin gauges without modification can be useless.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

,,, Wheel gauges hold their settings well, mark with, across and in end grain equally crisply,

so do pin gauges if you use them properly

are not affected by seasonal movement (heads don't become wobbly on the shaft, or too stiff to move when it's raining out!)

One usually adjusts them more frequently than the rate of change of seasons! If loose - tighten the screw (surprised you didn't know that Mike - what did you think the screw was for?). If tight, sand off the shaft as necessary. Only needs doing once and it'll work for life.

...Pin type gauges can be a PITA and knife gauges are superior in any event, ....

PITA if you don't know how to use them, which is my point.
Knife gauges aren't "superior" particularly but are suited for when a cut line is needed. The "double" bevel is so tiny that it it only matters to those who talk in "thous" i.e. not woodworkers

..pin gauges without modification can be useless..

nonsense, or at least, only in unpracticed hands. How did people manage before the new woodwork came along? :lol: :lol:

 

[John15]

I don't think a tape and a couple of steel rules are on the list

John

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Neil, I find it crisp and easy to use in oak.

I'd been told that they didn't work well in oak. :lol:

Thanks,
Neil

 

[woodbrains]

,,, Wheel gauges hold their settings well, mark with, across and in end grain equally crisply,

so do pin gauges if you use them properly

are not affected by seasonal movement (heads don't become wobbly on the shaft, or too stiff to move when it's raining out!)

One usually adjusts them more frequently than the rate of change of seasons! If loose - tighten the screw (surprised you didn't know that Mike - what did you think the screw was for?). If tight, sand off the shaft as necessary. Only needs doing once and it'll work for life.

...Pin type gauges can be a PITA and knife gauges are superior in any event, ....

PITA if you don't know how to use them, which is my point.
Knife gauges aren't "superior" particularly but are suited for when a cut line is needed. The "double" bevel is so tiny that it it only matters to those who talk in "thous" i.e. not woodworkers

..pin gauges without modification can be useless..

nonsense, or at least, only in unpracticed hands. How did people manage before the new woodwork came along? :lol: :lol:

This is all very interesting, I don't think. The question I asked is where are, as you contend, wheel gauges inferior? They work, don't produce double bevels and don't need their shafts sandpapering when they get tight in the humid months, only to have them become over loose when dry again. You can't say you have never had a wooden gauge get loose so the head, no matter how tight you crank the screw, wobbles and won't remain square to the shaft. In other words, won't hold a setting due to lack of parallelism. Wooden gauges also invariably have pins that protrude way too much. Of course they can be remedied, but of course, by the time the shaft is sandpapered, the pins are shortened and sharpened, (you might as well stone them into a knife edge whilst you're at it, so they actually cut across the grain rather than tear the heck out of it) then you can hardly claim the trad wooden ones are better than the wheel gauges, where none of this
Is has to be done. I repeat, wheel gauges work, where are they inferior to wooden pin gauges?

Mike.

 

[matt_southward]

I have to admit that I like my wheel gauges, and have never really liked ordinary wooden ones. That's possibly a question of quality as the only wooden ones I've used have been cheap and a bit coarse. My experience was that they did wobble a bit (no matter how tight you tightened them), and as soon as I tried a wheel gauge I was sold - I find them much more intuitive (for me) to use.

However, Paul Sellers (who is a wooden gauge fan as I'm sure you know) did give a valid criticism of them a while back as he determined that the wheels are pretty fragile and prone to edge fracture, though I think I remember him saying that the fracture didn't impact on the use that much. A slightly thicker wheel might remedy that fault. Overall, I'm happy with mine, though they are quite pricey.

 

[Vann]

I repeat, wheel gauges work, where are they inferior to wooden pin gauges?

No point in arguing with the OP. He will NEVER admit it when he is wrong.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Odd. The subject of the thread is 'Core Tool Kit', but it seems to be mostly an argument about marking gauges. I'm sure most tool kits have other tools in them, as well.

Oh Well. Whatever...

**Shuffles off, shaking head and muttering incoherently under breath.**

 

[Jacob]

I repeat, wheel gauges work, where are they inferior to wooden pin gauges?

They don't do anything which the wooden gauges don't do, but cost 10 times as much, which makes them 10 times inferior.
PS and they aren't as convenient to use , which makes them even more inferior, say 20 times?

 

[Jacob]

Odd. The subject of the thread is 'Core Tool Kit', but it seems to be mostly an argument about marking gauges. I'm sure most tool kits have other tools in them, as well.

Oh Well. Whatever...

**Shuffles off, shaking head and muttering incoherently under breath.**

Well yes. What about the sharpening? :lol:
Poor old Rob won't be able to commit himself to anything as it's too controversial. Not here it isn't in my part of the wood - its's dead simple, but out there its very contentious. :roll:
I think Rob will sit on the fence and pretend it's not there and might go away.
If he's scratching his head and wondering - the answer is a double sided oil stone.
Same thing on the Axminster site where it says (oddly) "designed for carpenter's and mechanics" but in fact this should be the basic first bit of sharpening kit for all novice woodworkers and it would be a long time before they would need anything more.
Some so-called woodwork tool suppliers don't even stock them. :roll: