Core tool kit

[RogerM]

I think if you're waiting for Rob to comment you'll have a long wait as he tells me that he doesn't frequent these parts any more. Probably best to ask any questions requiring his input "over there".

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The point of the thread over there, was to ascertain a core tool kit, which will be such a vital part of the tool kit, the best available should be bought. Not a 'it works with lots of fettling' or 'will do in a pinch till something more suitable is available' tool kit. A once only buy, forever kit, that will last and never disappoint. It was also aimed at a furniture making student, the likes that attend Barnsley or Parnham. Fine furniture done to a high level of precision in very expensive timber, where close is not good enough. The best tools will allow that student to reliably do this, wihthout worrying that the tools might be letting the side down a bit. So, someone who pays to go to these colleges will not be worried about a plane that cost £300 or a marking gauge for £30. Or chisels that have thick lands so dovetailing will be difficult (overcuts and brused corners totally out of the question) sharpening will be done to much higher levels of fineness that double sided India stones, and squares will be the best Moore and Wright or Starrett combination sets, not a bit of wood with a blade jammed into it. It is a 'best of' tool kit, not a DIY's under the stairs for emergency kit. It has to be contextualised; a core kit for a desert island survival would probably include an axe. A fine furniture makers kit definitely would not.

Incidentally, Stanley made wheel marking gauges with Sweetheart branding, ie pre war. Is that not trad enough?

Mike.

 

[Harbo]

Well he can't cause he's not a member and if he keeps trying to ridicule them I cannot think he will be very welcome - he was banned from the original WH for causing trouble (and WUK and this one under another avatar). Sadly he cannot help himself?

Rod

 

[Chip shop]

This is an Ace thread. Here's my door hanging kit:

 

[Jacob]

.... It was also aimed at a furniture making student, the likes that attend Barnsley or Parnham. Fine furniture done to a high level of precision in very expensive timber, where close is not good enough. .....

It didn't say that at all. No mention of fantasy tools for fantasy woodwork.

 

[Fat ferret]

Never had wheel marking gauge cause I suspect it's an expensive gimmick and the cheap wooden ones work fine never had any problems with my shaft shrinking! :shock:

Ok core tool kit for working on site cause I've come to get on with job and I will bring whatever other power tools once I know I need them.

Big claw hammer
Wee pin hammer
Hachet for skirting on uneven floor, stud work, making offcuts into kindling for customers wood burner...
Cross cut saw 7tpi spear and jackson with spare in car incase I run into a nail
Panel saw with a curve at the end to use as a floorboard saw, (shop mod)
Tenon saw.
Coping saw.
Chisels 1/4 to 1 1/4 firmers plus two bevel edged paring chisels with hoop handles fitted for cutting hinge mortices.
No 5 1/2 plane.
No 4 plane, all planes old records.
Block plane with choice of blade positions
Combi square (bacho)
Tape measure, stanley.
Pencils,
Dividers,
Levels 2' 4' and 6' stabila
Marking gauges.
Bevel.
Sparky screwdriver,
Rachet screw driver that takes cordless drill bit heads.
Cordless drill 10v bosch plus spare batery and charger
Drill bits with built in countersink, screwdriver bits all in baccy tin.
Flat bits with auger bits for special occasions.
Nail punch.
Round rasp,
Half round rasp.
File
Oiltone
WD40
G cramps.
Stapler.
Silicon gun.

All of which lives in a plywood chest 27" long which is a joy to carry upstairs! All common sizes of screw and nail plus glue and other bits and bobs in box with sds drill. Plus leather pinny, specks and lug protectors. Ready to go.

 

[Chip shop]

Never had wheel marking gauge cause I suspect it's an expensive gimmick and the cheap wooden ones work fine never had any problems with my shaft shrinking! :shock:

Ok core tool kit for working on site cause I've come to get on with job and I will bring whatever other power tools once I know I need them.

Big claw hammer
Wee pin hammer
Hachet for skirting on uneven floor, stud work, making offcuts into kindling for customers wood burner...
Cross cut saw 7tpi spear and jackson with spare in car incase I run into a nail
Panel saw with a curve at the end to use as a floorboard saw, (shop mod)
Tenon saw.
Coping saw.
Chisels 1/4 to 1 1/4 firmers plus two bevel edged paring chisels with hoop handles fitted for cutting hinge mortices.
No 5 1/2 plane.
No 4 plane, all planes old records.
Block plane with choice of blade positions
Combi square (bacho)
Tape measure, stanley.
Pencils,
Dividers,
Levels 2' 4' and 6' stabila
Marking gauges.
Bevel.
Sparky screwdriver,
Rachet screw driver that takes cordless drill bit heads.
Cordless drill 10v bosch plus spare batery and charger
Drill bits with built in countersink, screwdriver bits all in baccy tin.
Flat bits with auger bits for special occasions.
Nail punch.
Round rasp,
Half round rasp.
File
Oiltone
WD40
G cramps.
Stapler.
Silicon gun.

All of which lives in a plywood chest 27" long which is a joy to carry upstairs! All common sizes of screw and nail plus glue and other bits and bobs in box with sds drill. Plus leather pinny, specks and lug protectors. Ready to go.

Can't really argue with much of that apart from the rasps.

 

[Jacob]

My starter kit was as per this thread from some time ago. tops-course-basic-kit-1982-t54291.html
It's not exactly a new topic, which is no reason to stop going over it again!

 

[Fat ferret]

What no rasps? More rasps? Different rasps?

Forgot nail pullers and of course four and six foot spirit levels don't live in box :wink: .

 

[woodbrains]

.... It was also aimed at a furniture making student, the likes that attend Barnsley or Parnham. Fine furniture done to a high level of precision in very expensive timber, where close is not good enough. .....

It didn't say that at all. No mention of fantasy tools for fantasy woodwork.

Hello,

Yes, it did, absolutely. You should actually read the threads that you are (errantly) pulling to bits. But then this has always been your problem.

Mike.

 

[n0legs]

I've got a bike you can ride it if you like it's got a basket and a bell on it.

 

[Jacob]

.... It was also aimed at a furniture making student, the likes that attend Barnsley or Parnham. Fine furniture done to a high level of precision in very expensive timber, where close is not good enough. .....

It didn't say that at all. No mention of fantasy tools for fantasy woodwork.

Hello,

Yes, it did, absolutely. You should actually read the threads that you are (errantly) pulling to bits. But then this has always been your problem.

Mike.

In fact it goes round the houses. And why not?
I wasn't pulling it to bits but merely adding suggestions of my own - proper wooden gauges being one and a double sided oil stone the other. Is this a problem? I can see it would be for the fantasy woodworkers , who tend to have strict ideas about how things should be done - the "correct" tools, crazy sharpening and all that polishing and flattening etc. :lol: Steam punk.
"Last a lifetime" seems to be a theme. In fact most things do anyway except obvious consumables, which can include hammers and mallets in my case.
A lot of people are working with tools which may be 50 to 100 years old, or more.

 

[iNewbie]

Time for a musical interlude...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPNHc-W_Js

 

[Jacob]

Sorry if I sound know-it-all but the "new woodworkers" are so assertive about how things should be done and with what tools, that you have to be fairly emphatic in disagreement. I don't think they do us any favours - particularly beginners who get persuaded to buy unnecessary expensive kit (wheel gauge) and indulge in difficult and often pointless procedures (polishing and flattening).
Mike - Parnham house folded, Barnsley et al is a quirky English backwater. There are many other influences worth taking note of.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Hello,

The point of the thread over there, was to ascertain a core tool kit, which will be such a vital part of the tool kit, the best available should be bought. Not a 'it works with lots of fettling' or 'will do in a pinch till something more suitable is available' tool kit. A once only buy, forever kit, that will last and never disappoint. It was also aimed at a furniture making student, the likes that attend Barnsley or Parnham. Fine furniture done to a high level of precision in very expensive timber, where close is not good enough. The best tools will allow that student to reliably do this, wihthout worrying that the tools might be letting the side down a bit. So, someone who pays to go to these colleges will not be worried about a plane that cost £300 or a marking gauge for £30. Or chisels that have thick lands so dovetailing will be difficult (overcuts and brused corners totally out of the question) sharpening will be done to much higher levels of fineness that double sided India stones, and squares will be the best Moore and Wright or Starrett combination sets, not a bit of wood with a blade jammed into it. It is a 'best of' tool kit, not a DIY's under the stairs for emergency kit. It has to be contextualised; a core kit for a desert island survival would probably include an axe. A fine furniture makers kit definitely would not.

Incidentally, Stanley made wheel marking gauges with Sweetheart branding, ie pre war. Is that not trad enough?

Mike.

Seriously Since when was fettling any tool not part and parcel of any furniture making course.

Sorry But as much as I completely disagree with Jacob on just about everything I find where you state "So, someone who pays to go to these colleges will not be worried about a plane that cost £300 or a marking gauge for £30. " rather elitist and old boy network crap.... I can guarantee that some of the students back in the days when Parnham was a going concern would have been very worried about the costs (Unfortunately though most wouldn't) and even in this day and age I would contend that the vast majority of folks that make their earning from wood will not have the very best of everything in their kit...
Most kit will have been bought within a budget to get the best value for their needs and styles..
Needs and styles evolve over time
From what I have seen the list seems to encompass top of the range kit where middle of the road kit would work just as well and give the student the chance to make his own mind up about what kit he or she may like to get as top of the range
To put it in a very simple manner I cannot help but think that the post is advising students to get a Rolls Royce to start with rather than BMW

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The point of the thread WAS discussing the higer end tools, though. if you want to start a thread of tools that are best on a budget, or best second hand purchases, then fair enough. but the other thread wasnt asking these questions, and the only reason it was brought over here was so that Jacob could do his usual moaning, because he was banned from there. If a tool works superbly well, then it cannot ever be called inferior to another, no matter how much cheaper or traditional that other tool may be. We have a choice, dont we?

Whether you like it or not, Parnham and its ilk was elitist, I'm afraid. those who can afford the fees are not bothered about the prices of tools. But then again I still dont think £300 pounds for a plane is exhoritant. I think Lie Nielsen et al are BMW's and not anywhere near Rolls Royces, for that we have Holtey and other hand made confections, and no one is advocating anone get thesea s a core tool kit.

Im not sure what fantasy woodwork actually is! 5 axis CNC router as a core tool, maybe that qualifies, but planes and marking gauges that cost a bit more for super performance, definitely doesnt qualify as fantasy woodwork. And as for tool fettling, aside from sharpening them, I think fettling has only become expected of a new tool because their quality fell to abysmal levels of medeocrity. And when they were good, back in trad times I suppose, they were BLOODY EXPENSIVE! Relative to the premium tools of today, in fact often more expensive.

Mike.

 

[iNewbie]

Sorry if I sound know-it-all but the "new woodworkers" are so assertive about how things should be done and with what tools, that you have to be fairly emphatic in disagreement. I don't think they do us any favours - particularly beginners who get persuaded to buy unnecessary expensive kit (wheel gauge) and indulge in difficult and often pointless procedures (polishing and flattening).
Mike - Parnham house folded, Barnsley et al is a quirky English backwater. There are many other influences worth taking note of.

Who are these "new woodworkers" because I don't see any on here.

No beginner can buy expensive kit he can't afford so I wouldn't lose sleep over it if I were you. Its not about the tools.

 

[J_SAMa]

Wheel gauges are fine for marking out joints but are beveled on the wrong side for dimensioning stock by hand. I use a pin gauge sharpened with only one bevel on the side away from the stock.
But I suppose just about everyone dimensions stock by machine nowadays so...

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The wheels can be reversed.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Wheel gauges are fine for marking out joints but are beveled on the wrong side for dimensioning stock by hand. I use a pin gauge sharpened with only one bevel on the side away from the stock.
But I suppose just about everyone dimensions stock by machine nowadays so...

I think the "double" bevel is so insignificant that flattening it is not worth the bother. Also it'd make it wrong if you marked up from the other side for any reason. With a normal pin it's the middle of the line which counts either way.