Convert an AGS10 to direct drive motor?

[KingAether]

I have been offered a "shell" of a ags for £100 as spares/repairs that im going to look at this weekend, apparently the issues are spindle nut is missing and motor pulley is missing "mainly", whatever mainly means ill find out when i see it but if its just a few parts to replace and the moving parts move it seems a reasonable price.
Realistically the motor and switch are dead as it looks like its in a scrap pile outside in the pictures so im thinking about taking the motor from my current dewalt "sawking" for it which would solve both missing parts and give it more power at, i believe, 3.3kw but its direct drive; im curious if anyone has converted a wadkin or any old belt driven saw to a dd motor and how did it go? I don't think ill have any problems making it fit the mount and not sure of any other pitfalls but its why i ask before i spend!
Thank you

 

[Ttrees]

Its probably grand, just needs a bit of TLC
Not much to go wrong with them, I'd keep it original.

If its three phase and dual voltage
(look for 240v/delta/or a triangle symbol this indicates so)
, and you only have single phase, then you might not be using the original switch, and different ones suited for the 100 quid VFD/inverter, would be sensible option surely.
If you have some old appliance, you can make a cabinet by bending some sheet metal at right angles five times add a back and lid and screw it together.
The switches cost about 3 pounds each, suitable cable costing probably just over a fiver, some cable glands a pound each, and some crimp connectors a pound for a box, not a big cost to fix up an original machine like that.

Tom

 

[Sideways]

Direct drive meaning the blade mounted on the motor spindle ?
The fun and games will be how you graft the dewalt motor onto the internals of the saw to get the motor spindle and blade in line with the table top slot and riving knife. I don't think it will be easy, if even possible from my memory of what the internal castings look like.
Can you not fit a pulley to the dewalt motor spindle and use it in the non direct drive configuration the saw is made with ?
Motor > drives belt > drives original spindle pulley (or a replacement if missing)

 

[KingAether]

Its probably grand, just needs a bit of TLC
Not much to go wrong with them, I'd keep it original.
If you have some old appliance, you can make a cabinet by bending some sheet metal at right angles five times add a back and lid and screw it together.

I can only hope but i can see in the pictures its got a layer of water on the bed and given the weather we've had down south i imagine its been drowning for a while. I'm not actually sure if its 3ph or single yet as its just up for spares/repairs there isn't any real info.
Wondering what you mean about making a cabinet from sheet?

Direct drive meaning the blade mounted on the motor spindle ?
Can you not fit a pulley to the dewalt motor spindle and use it in the non direct drive configuration the saw is made with ?
Motor > drives belt > drives original spindle pulley (or a replacement if missing)

i do indeed mean the blade sits directly on the motor arbor and to be honest, i didn't consider it yet but that does seem easier to imagine doing!

 

[KingAether]

The guy isn't at the yard for long and i wont get there in time so my brother is just going to get it for me; the bed alone went for £150 on eBay just recently so cant go wrong even for parts value at £100 i guess, ill update with a resto thread soon

 

[julianf]

I can't see any sensible reason to convert from belt to direct drive on one of these.

Belt is just easy. Direct isn't, and for no additional benefit.

 

[Ttrees]

I can only hope but i can see in the pictures its got a layer of water on the bed and given the weather we've had down south i imagine its been drowning for a while. I'm not actually sure if its 3ph or single yet as its just up for spares/repairs there isn't any real info.
Wondering what you mean about making a cabinet from sheet?

i do indeed mean the blade sits directly on the motor arbor and to be honest, i didn't consider it yet but that does seem easier to imagine doing!

If you're thinking there's a possibly you might be running it with a VFD, you would need some sort of dust proof/resistant, and bash proof enclosure.

And if you want to save a further few bob, making a box for the switches will save you buying a button station for at least 15 quid.

 

[KingAether]

I can't see any sensible reason to convert from belt to direct drive on one of these.

Belt is just easy. Direct isn't, and for no additional benefit.

It was just out of convenience, possibly, as i had the motor already. I didn't know if it would be as easy as seating it right or if the mechanisms would work different etc.
I just got it here and while its not looking as bad as it did in the pictures, the motor is not dual phase and i don't want to put another £100+ into it so ill be selling as parts once i give it a clean

 

[julianf]

If you have a motor, then I can't think that the shaft of the motor is such that you wouldn't be able to fit a pulley to it.

Making up an adapter plate to couple the replacement motors foot to the original motors mounting points would be child's play, compared to trying to mount the replacement motor as a direct drive.

If you want to break it for parts then that's fine, but if it's just that you're looking at how to mount up the motor, then im sure it won't be that involved to do it as a belt drive.


Again, I'm not suggesting what you do really, more encouraging you that using your existing motor as a belt drive unit may not be that hard. Or of course may be entirely impossible... : )

If you're keen post up some photos.

 

[KingAether]

I definitely agree, it would be easier to do so assuming they are both mounted in the same direction; i hadn't even thought to initially and If i had the money i would definitely go about restoring it that way but I didn't really click that i was considering using the motor but realistically would need to sell the dewalt saw so either not selling it or buying a new motor wouldn't be smart currently.
Another option thats more work for sure but "cheaper"; I'd be quite happy spending a weekend stripping it, cleaning parts and selling them for repairs as by the looks of it, i could get my money back from the innards alone and transplant the dewalt into the wadkin. That way i can much more easily work with the dust, ill have mitre slots and the ability to attach a real fence rail which is all i want really, the dewalt would be perfect if not an older open contractor style made from rolled steel

 

[Spectric]

I can't see any sensible reason to convert from belt to direct drive on one of these.

Belt is just easy. Direct isn't, and for no additional benefit.

Totally agree, with a belt drive the motor alignment is not so critical and you can ensure the correct blade speed, running any blade, cutting / grinding disk too fast can result in serious injury or worse.

 

[KingAether]

This is it as is @julianf

 

[MusicMan]

That's not at all bad actually, many worse ones have been reconditioned and work well. Motor and pulleys are easily sorted. The fence is also missing, which means an aftermarket fence unless you are lucky enough to find one used, and the spindle nut (5/8" 11 tip left hand thread IIRC) will need to be specially cut, but all that is possible. OTOH it would go well for spares, yes, cleaned up.

 

[Ttrees]

Did you look under the removable cover for access for the terminals to be sure?
It might not be a fixed star wound motor.
You can try dig out the end of the windings to convert it to dual voltage, but you'd want to be quite interested/well versed on how to do it.

Is the other motor on the disposable dewalt an induction motor?
I've never seen anything but induction motors in situations where there was a large
amount of inertia like on a proper sized TS blade.
I doubt it would last very long.

Have you thought about how noisy a universal motor is yet, it might be worth considering that you want as little distraction as possible when using a proper tablesaw with a large blade.
For me that includes noise and not worrying about some part of the innards breaking or going on fire.

If you're new to this woodworking malarkey, know you've got a good saw which
you will value a lot more when the time comes to use it frequently.
It ain't broken so would be a shame to break it for parts.

Nice looking machine
Tom

 

[KingAether]

@Ttrees I didnt check under the cover, i took a picture under the hood and left it at that once i saw the motor plate; ill check tomorrow but wont hold my breath as i imagine finding it is but isn't stamped wouldn't be too common?
Not sure what the dewalt motor is but its quiet, mostly just a whizzing sound from the air as it spins. Again im not sure what type of motors they have but i have other machinery so im used to the sound, i tend to keep a few ear protectors around as im in a small working space and it can get loud with the pillars or bandsaw running.
Currently its just a money thing, i know its a goodun in the right condition but not certain i can afford it right now

 

[Ttrees]

If you're on a shoe string, then the VFD is the way to go!.
Regardless if its a dual voltage motor or not, you should keep the saw intact,
as if you're in this for the long haul, you will get the know how.
For starters, look at Bob Minchin's (Myfordman's) induction motor write up
which will explain all to you, aswell as plenty of Wadkin and Startrite machines
on this forum running on VFD/inverters.


Induction motor information here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrXNsNxTlQzd6aldlQjJtUDQ/view?usp=sharing

I had a look on the bay and see the same as one of mine for about 80 pound now, so that would be under a hundred quid, worth saving pennies for.
You must be aware of the dimensions of these, as some sellers are being sneaky and selling micro versions of these VFD's now, and using the photos of the normal size.


Aye, keep us updated on things, hopefully under the terminal cover might reveal
the option for Delta (low voltage 240v) configuration arrangement.
If not, I would spend my time studying the forum on tablesaw conversions and other Wadkin machiney, some needing work on digging out the end of the windings to locate star point, but that's down the road yet.

And depending on your supply...
Might be worth looking for a cheap induction motor in the meanwhile,
and worth noting that your supply will likely need to be 16a (blue commando plugs) if you were to go with an equivalent single phase motor, compared to an...easy on your 13 amp household plug/supply, 3 phase motor running with VFD.

Good luck with your new machine!
Tom

 

[KingAether]

Thanks for the help, ill take a look under the cover tomorrow to see how it looks and see about getting someone with the right equipment to check it even works; it was outside for a while i believe. I feel confident converting the motor if necessary and possible and i have wired a few things in the workshop inc. a startrite with a VFD so that shouldn't be an issue.
If i know the motor lives i dont mind selling the dewalt in advance to recoup costs and cover a VFD, arbor nut and pulley

 

[julianf]

If the motor has got wet, as im sure it will have, dry it out for about 3x as long as you think it needs, before applying any power.

Most electronics dont get broken by water at all. They get broken by water and electricity. Remove the water before moving the electrons arround again, and you might be in luck.

Bearings may be done for, but they are cheap enough. Or they may be fine, as they would have been full of grease anyway.

 

[julianf]

Ps if you need any photos at any time, I'll be using my ags 10 this afternoon and walk past it most days, so let me know...

 

[KingAether]

@julianf thats great to know, Ill be going out shortly to pull the motor out and give it a look under the cover, have been waiting for the ground to dry before i go lay out on concrete but ill keep the post updated on what i find. Much appreciated about the pictures!