Combined Flu ***

[Vulcan]

From what I’ve read recently, Covid vaccines are quite batch variable. Some batches have apparently caused excess adverse reactions have been withdrawn in the past. Just because someone has had one, two four or more Covid vaccinations without apparent complications doesn’t mean this will continue. Then of course there is time. It could be Jacob that you’ll have a stroke or heart attack in a few years but no one will attribute it to your vaccinations. Because quite simply you’re unimportant and it’s not in their interest.

 

[Drifter2406]

Not that many in reality. It's like climate change scepticism; something like 99% of scientists support the man-made climate change hypothesis. The 1% remaining may well number in thousands, but so what?

I genuinely feel sorry for you. What a lonely life you must lead.

 

[Deadeye]

I don’t believe he was. But what’s your view on the Nurses that refused the vaccination? Some lost their jobs and many others protested about mandatory vaccination at the time.

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/c...-mandatory-covid-19-vaccine-rules-25-01-2022/

I suspect many are still unvaccinated.

He was - he was saying that doctors would deliberately falsify a cause of death certificate. One might say that I'm quite familiar with hospital doctors, and they really don't do this - however much the family might wish them to record it differently.

Nurses? Well, it's interesting. Medical students at university cannot join their course without a set of vaccinations. Similarly any NHS employees in path labs (including management) are required to have up to date certification. So we're not very consistent to say the least.
My personal opinion is that anyone commencing a nursing or medicine (or other clinical, patient-facing) course should be required to have both Covid and 'flu vaccines as well as the full suite of others. No exceptions. Thereafter it should be a requirement of employment to maintain that status. I'm less sure we can apply it retrospectively, especially when the majority of the hesitants are from global majority backgrounds and many we have just brought to the uk to address shortages. However, if you change the rules at the training/start of career stage the issue will resolve with time.
Incidentally, the government changed their minds about compulsion so nobody lost their job; more misinformation.

I do wish you'd look at peer-reviewed high impact journals and not scrape conspiracies off youtube. Christ on a bike we've even got someone saying "the truth is out there". Next they'll be calling us sheeple

 

[Deadeye]

From what I’ve read recently, Covid vaccines are quite batch variable. Some batches have apparently caused excess adverse reactions have been withdrawn in the past. Just because someone has had one, two four or more Covid vaccinations without apparent complications doesn’t mean this will continue. Then of course there is time. It could be Jacob that you’ll have a stroke or heart attack in a few years but no one will attribute it to your vaccinations. Because quite simply you’re unimportant and it’s not in their interest.

Honestly, just stop. This is laughable

 

[Deadeye]

Folks, I'm checking out - I have to go into a big building with lots of colleagues in scrubs and do my job.
Well done all those keeping their vaccinations up to date. Try to ignore the drivel (shills?)

 

[Jacob]

I genuinely feel sorry for you. What a lonely life you must lead.

er, why?
Almost everybody accepts the value of vaccines, and climate change theory. Why would I be lonely we are a massive majority - there's millions of us!
You are in a tiny minority; don't you feel a little bit left behind, sheepishly flogging your dead horse?

 

[Lons]

Well I'm convinced that there are aliens walking among us, in fact there seem to be some contributing to this thread. I'm just off to do some Google and Youtube searching where I'm sure I'll have no problem finding concrete conclusive proof in videos and articles by suitably qualified idiots. Might even find that Elvis is still out there and was rotating his pelvis in Vegas only last week

 

[Jacob]

.........It could be Jacob that you’ll have a stroke or heart attack in a few years but no one will attribute it to your vaccinations. ....

Or not catch flu, RSV, Covid and not attribute that to my vaccinations?
But it might be because I walked under a ladder, or forgot to throw spilled salt over my shoulder?
How would you prove it either way?

 

[Krome10]

That is the problem in a nutshell! (no pun intended)
You just need to work at it yourself a lot more.

Another reply with no substance. Why not play the ball and we can actually discuss the matter?

 

[Jacob]

Another reply with no substance. Why not play the ball and we can actually discuss the matter?

What for? You've rejected the scientific consensus from the experts. It's up to you to convince us (and them) that somehow you know better.

 

[Dovetail]

Oh for gods sake, these side effects are extremely rare and the vaccine would not be approved if the risks of not having them were not much higher than having them.

Why the hell do we have a ******* moderator on a forum like this promoting vaccine scepticism?

Mods are allowed to have their own opinions. They are volunteers who keep the forum moving forward. Their views do not reflect the forum whether I agree with them or not.

Mods are people. People think stuff.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Smoking.
Alcohol.
Obesity.
Processed meat overconsumption (perhaps even all meat and dairy).
Processed food overconsumption.
Too much sugar.
Too much salt.
Contact sports.
Skydiving.
Mountain hiking.
Motorbikes.
The list is endless...

I'm not sure how "not only stupid but selfish and inconsiderate" doesn't apply to this lot as well...

Although smoking, alcohol, obesity etc etc etc can be personally damaging, most may have secondary impacts on others, infection is very direct. Being fat is a personal risk - it is not catching!

There is also the reproduction rate to consider (R number) which is basically the number of people that one infected person will pass on a virus to.

A small change in vaccination level can (and does) protect the community, or allow it to spread widely. It is a calculation made more complex as the consequences of infection can vary markedly depending on age, ethinicy etc/

 

[Noel]

We've been down this rabbit hole many times in the past and it ends up in an angry mess with the usual consequences.
If you want this thread to continue for a few more hours or so please behave, do not be rude or disparaging toward others. If you disagree with a POV just explain why and put your view forward. It's not hard. Make it a discussion, not a P3 argument/tantrum.

 

[NickDReed]

I would encourage anyone making an argument that implies that 'scientific concensus' means there is no longer any need for further exploration or discussion of a topic to look up Galileo Galilei, Ignaz Semmelweis, Alfred Wegener, Barbara McClintock, Lynn Margulis etc etc etc.

 

[Krome10]

What for? You've rejected the scientific consensus from the experts. It's up to you to convince us (and them) that somehow you know better.

I haven't rejected anything. Perhaps you have me mixed up with other posters? Or maybe your nuance won't go beyond a simple us and them?

 

[Krome10]

Although smoking, alcohol, obesity etc etc etc can be personally damaging, most may have secondary impacts on others, infection is very direct. Being fat is a personal risk - it is not catching!

There is also the reproduction rate to consider (R number) which is basically the number of people that one infected person will pass on a virus to.

A small change in vaccination level can (and does) protect the community, or allow it to spread widely. It is a calculation made more complex as the consequences of infection can vary markedly depending on age, ethinicy etc/

But does it significantly stop the spread? Does it significantly stop your chance of getting covid? And if so can you link me to data showing any of this? The mainstream info nowadays seems to suggest it helps lessen the severity of infection, which is great for the individual, but for others....

If, as Jacob suggests, not preventing the spread to others is socially irresponsible, then why aren't people still wearing facemasks?
Irrespective of all that, it was the "socially irresponsible" burden on the healthcare system that I was focussing on with my list, in comparing it with those who wish to not have the vaccination.


I do think this touches on another point though. Is it really a vaccine, and if so what definition of vaccine are we using? Does it mean you won't get covid? No. Does it mean you can't pass covid onto others? No. Are either of these necessary for something to be considered a vaccine? ...

If not, and seeing as it works at the genetic level of the body, is it not more accurate to describe it as gene therapy?

 

[MikeJhn]

I have been advised by my Oncologist not to have any Vaccines at the moment until my immune system is back in working order, and to avoid the billowing smoke breathed out by Vapers.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

But does it significantly stop the spread? Does it significantly stop your chance of getting covid? And if so can you link me to data showing any of this? The mainstream info nowadays seems to suggest it helps lessen the severity of infection, which is great for the individual, but for others....

It reduces the severity of infection. Viruses mutate often becoming less virulent. Viruses need to survive - if they kill their hosts the virus dies with them.

The Covid vaccine was the principal reason cases and deaths fell as it was rolled out and society returned to normal. To assert otherwise would go against 95%+ of accepted scientific opinion. and without very clear evidence (IMHO) is the rantings of a crank.

If for each 100 people infected they infect 110 others the virus will spread. It will continue to spread until natural immunity in those previously infected or vaccinated sufficiently reduces the number of those still to be infected.

If 100 infected infect only 90 others the spread will be limited - a reproduction rate below 1.

It is fairly simple maths overlaid with complexities associated with age, virus mutations, ethnic/racial background etc. Hence vaccinate the older - for the young the infection is a lower threat.

If, as Jacob suggests, not preventing the spread to others is socially irresponsible, then why aren't people still wearing facemasks?

Risks associated with infection in a mostly immunised or naturally immune population are low.

I do think this touches on another point though. Is it really a vaccine, and if so what definition of vaccine are we using? Does it mean you won't get covid? No. Does it mean you can't pass covid onto others? No. Are either of these necessary for something to be considered a vaccine? ...

If not, and seeing as it works at the genetic level of the body, is it not more accurate to describe it as gene therapy?

Definition of a vaccine - a preparation of killed, weakened, or fully infectious microbes that is given (as by injection) to produce or increase immunity to a particular disease

AIUI the covid vaccine is a vaccine - not gene therapy - I am sure others with more knowledge than I will be able to explain!!

 

[Krome10]

Your last point is clearly contradictory. The whole premise of this is thread is that the flu vaccine - having previously been a vaccination as per your bold text - is now being developed as part of a combined mRNA. Perhaps I was hasty and wrong to call it gene therapy, I'm not sure. And I'm not knowledgeable enough to say either way. But they do not conform to the definition you've just given.

Risks associated with infection in a mostly immunised or naturally immune population are low.

Well then if most are vaccinated and a small minority choose not to be, where is the social irresponsibility?

As to your other point, I'm still not sure of the numbers with regards the effectiveness of minimising the spread (as opposed to reducing severity, which is a separate matter and less relevant to "social responsibility"). I'd like to read more about it if anyone has links to hand.

 

[Krome10]

Meanwhile, not that MSM have much to say on the matter, high excess deaths remain concerning and unexplained....

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroo...-for-3-years-running-since-start-of-pandemic/