Cloned Number Plates...just a word of warning!

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ey_tony

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2015
Messages
589
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580
Location
North Yorkshire
Recently (29/07/2024) I received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for the sum of £70.00 by a traffic management company for apparently overstaying by 3 hours at a car park which I believe was the Trafford Centre in the Greater Manchester area which is at least 100 miles away from me as I live in East Yorkshire and which I've only ever passed many years ago when once flying from Manchester Airport.

The PCN also included a picture of the offending vehicle taken by an ANPR camera which showed 'my' personal registration but on a completely different vehicle.
My vehicle is an older black BMW Sports convertible while the image of the offending vehicle was a white AUDI estate. My BMW had been SORNed for several years and stood on my driveway so it's never left my property.

The first question to ask is: Does anyone from the company issuing these PCNs ever check before sending them out? After all, my details were correctly filled into each box of the notice including the colour etc and yet the vehicle image couldn't have been different, surely someone should be checking these before sending them out?

Once I'd grasped what had happened I immediately contacted Humberside police to report a crime which was actually easier said than done but by late afternoon I'd managed to get them to put a marker put on my registration number and then proceeded to contact Greater Manchester Police to get them to do the same. I was also informed that I should also notify DVLA which was closed so left it until the following morning.
That in itself was another let down as I wasn't able to get the marker put on their records until it was done in writing with a signature.

The problem was that I had issues with my printer and as that day I was going for several days break to my caravan up in Co. Durham, the letter had to wait until I returned nearly a week later. It turned out that it was a corrupted printer driver that was the problem but surely the DVLA should be able to make a note on the registration without having to go through me sending them a signed letter given that I had two different police incident numbers in support of my request.
I know what these parking companies can be like so I wasted no time in sending them a strongly worded appeal that the vehicle shown was not my vehicle and that I would not enter into further correspondence over the matter and if they aggressively pursued or disputed my objections then I would simply place it in the hands of my motoring legal protection solicitors which I always take out with each policy.

To be fair my appeal worked and I had a response within less than 48 hours dropping the PCN but if they'd just looked at the image and compared the details of the genuine registration vehicle then it should have dawned on them that it was incorrect.

As for how someone got hold of my personalised vehicle number, I can only assume that it was noted by one of the many delivery drivers who visit my property and the cul de sac in which I live. Obviously someone has noted the number and sold it on to other criminals or used it to cover their own criminal behaviour. The number must have been noted by someone while they were in my location as it wasn't on the road for several years.

From now on I'm going to cover the number plate so that it can't be copied and used again. The problem is that I had been planning to put the vehicle back on the road at some point in the near future so I'll have to go through all of the processes again of getting the markers taken off which will take up yet more time and inconvenience and all because of some scrote who would rather cause other people issues than pay the road tax. I really do hope they catch them but I doubt I'll never find out if they do.

So just be aware that it can happen to anyone and don't waste time in getting in touch with the police and DVLA if it does as, parking fines and traffic violations are big business to authorities and parking management companies these days and nipping it in the bud so to speak is better than ignoring the notices even if you know it's got nothing to do with you and having to deal with the problems later when you could have several traffic tickets to deal with at once.
Do not ignore any such ticket, Collect as much evidence as you can in support or your claim that it wasn't you or your vehicle which was involved in the traffic violation.
It would also be interesting to see if any other forum members have had the same issues.
 
Yes, a few years ago I received a PCN in much the same circumstances for parking somewhere I had never been.

I appealed and asked for photographic evidence. They said that they would send me the photos for a fee of £10.00. I of course refused to pay.

A few days later they upped the ante with “failure to pay fees” added but this time provided my registration and the fact that my car was a Saab.

Luckily for me, my car was an Audi. I contacted them again and later that day received a phone message “letting me off on this occasion”. Their actual words, cheeky *******s!
 
I had a parking dispute w Eurocarparks for leaving without paying for 10min 45 sec of parking.
ANPR evidence.
I spent that time queuing and trying to pay at 2 machines and online before leaving in frustration.
Parking penalty charges are a huge earner for these companies.
My first appeal was dismissed by their internal reviewer - who didn't even bother to read what I wrote.
The 2nd tier appeal to their industry association adjudicator was upheld decisively.
My case was bombproof with photos and witness statements but the assessor threw their case out on a technicality of signage I was unaware of, before acknowledging that my own evidence was more than enough.

So you just have to willing to fight them.
 
One doesn't have to clone an actual number plate. One just has to come up with a number that is plausible, for the age of the vehicle..
 
I do wonder whether there is an offence being committed by the parking company - demanding money with menaces.

Their get out with regards to such a charge may rely upon whether the demand was warranted - that they had reasonable grounds for the claim.

As it would be evident from even a cursory inspection of publicly available records that their photo does not match the registration details, they do not have reasonable grounds for the claim.

Just speculation - would a counter claim for the stress caused together with wasted time and effort in rejecting the claim be successful. Alternatively legislate for automatic compensation (perhaps double) of the value of the claim made.

This would ensure that parking companies would be more circumspect and professional in future.
 
Mmmm ........... but the one that was a clone of mine was the same vehicle, same colour.
Were I the sort of character that fitted cloned number plates to my car to avoid prosecution, I would ensure the clone matched another vehicle of similar age, colour, make, model.

Otherwise it is immediately obvious that the number plate and vehicle do not match - any sophisticated ANPR system or enquiry by a patrol car would highlight the inconsistency.

A very simple program could rapidly identify passing cars with no insurance, tax or apparently cloned number plate. It is a testament to the lack of concern (police and/or other authorities) that so little effort is applied to detection and action.
 
Yes. I got away with mine because the car was photographed 250 miles from home and my wife had about twenty witnesses who could verify it had been in a bank car park all day. It might have been difficult otherwise.
 
I had a parking dispute w Eurocarparks for leaving without paying for 10min 45 sec of parking.
ANPR evidence.
I spent that time queuing and trying to pay at 2 machines and online before leaving in frustration.
Parking penalty charges are a huge earner for these companies.
My first appeal was dismissed by their internal reviewer - who didn't even bother to read what I wrote.
The 2nd tier appeal to their industry association adjudicator was upheld decisively.
My case was bombproof with photos and witness statements but the assessor threw their case out on a technicality of signage I was unaware of, before acknowledging that my own evidence was more than enough.

So you just have to willing to fight them.
I'm totally in sympathy with your situation, and glad it was sorted. I will say that it was lucky there was a signage fault by them, as my experience is if you break their rules, you pay their charges. For going over by just those 45", you pay.
You are absolutely right that you shouldn't have to, because it is their fault that there are queues and awkward/unuseable machines. BUT you broke their rule.
They take no account of the actual circumstance.
I had to cough up when legally parked at my flat, and a force 10 gale blew my parking permit off the dashboard to where it was not visible to the person checking. 'No display - you pay'. (And you would not believe the nasty comments I got on the MSE forum for not fighting it!)
 
I had one a few weeks ago. This was a failure of the ANPR system which saw a Y as a V. The car in the image was a different make, model and colour to that listed in the description. So no they don’t check it’s a fully automatic system. The cost of sending a PCN and having the receiver check it is less than employing someone to check.
My gripe is how difficult they make it to contest the PCN. Every link on their websites lead to an enter your credit card here page. To get to the contest form requires multiple clicks and finding well disguised links.
 
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I couldn't speak to a person regarding the PCN I received from the parking management company. There was a telephone number but it was either pay or make an appeal online or in writing...that were the only choices you are given hence my firm appeal to them.
I did inform them when I appealed that if they challenged me regarding the validity of their PCN that on top of legal action they would also be held responsible for the time I spent on dealing with it which I assured them wouldn't come cheap.

It should be a legal requirement that you are able to speak to someone in circumstances like that in which I found myself. It's extremely frustrating.
How do I know that it is even a legal PCN?
This certainly needs looking into as curiously only earlier this morning I came across a news feed on my phone highlighting the very problem of number plate cloning in London which is causing serious problems for the victims.
 
Also worth making sure you have some unique identifier on your car so that if it is cloned to the same model and colour of car the picture will not have the same badges, window stick ons etc that make yours unique.

Given the increasing scale of the problem I agree with ey-tony that something needs to be done to prevent these parking companies from hounding innocent people.
 
I'm totally in sympathy with your situation, and glad it was sorted. I will say that it was lucky there was a signage fault by them, as my experience is if you break their rules, you pay their charges. For going over by just those 45", you pay.
You are absolutely right that you shouldn't have to, because it is their fault that there are queues and awkward/unuseable machines. BUT you broke their rule.
I appreciate the sympathy, but you're totally mistaken.
I didn't get to "park".
I spent 10m45s attempting to park and exiting without delay when they were unable to deliver a service because they didn't provide a functioning means for me to pay them. All of their parking machines failed despite multiple attempts.
There is no agreed time allowed for someone to try to park and to exit if unable to. This isn't published anywhere on site for you to agree to before passing the incoming barrier, isn't under your control if for instance there was a queue to exit the site that prevented you even if you tried to drive right out.
There is no national standard for such things and different parking co's choose their own times, which aren't usually made available anywhere for a driver arriving at a cap park to check.

"Their" rules don't matter. No one gets to unilaterally make up a set of rules and enforce them on people who don't have the opportunity to agree to them. That's like me taking you to court because I've decided that anyone who disagrees with me owes me £100.

This would have been thrown out in any court and I was quite looking forward to having the argument in front of a magistrate so that I could claim for expenses and a nice lunch for me and my two witnesses :)

There was no luck about the signage. The adjudicator would have thrown out the claim on the basis of my own arguments, it just happened that she identified a technical issue AS WELL.
 
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Also worth making sure you have some unique identifier on your car so that if it is cloned to the same model and colour of car the picture will not have the same badges, window stick ons etc that make yours unique.

Given the increasing scale of the problem I agree with ey-tony that something needs to be done to prevent these parking companies from hounding innocent people.
All they are intrested in is the MONEY nothing else.

It's really bad in Boston they have a huge amount of traffic wardens trolling the streets , I did hear a argument by a lady who had to walk about 100 feet to the machine , wait for 2 people in front of her to get the tickets to display on the dash board , When she returned to her car a warden was in the process of issuing a ticket
 
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