Clifton plane sale!

[Jacob]

.....
How would you advise Clico to improve their marketing?

Correct the quality control issues as decribed by Schwarzy in Pete Ms link above, and publicise the fact

What would make you want to buy a Clifton if you were in the market for a new plane?

Not seeing reviews like Schwarzy's. He gave better reviews to the Stanley SW no4 - and I bought one. Clifton planes are bloody expensive and every single one has to be very good.
Also they are a bit 'retro' which isn't for everybody. Too much emphasis on style? All the other contenders claim (rightly or wrongly) to be innovative in one way or another.

 

[Paul Chapman]

.....
How would you advise Clico to improve their marketing?

Correct the quality control issues as decribed by Schwarzy in Pete Ms link above, and publicise the fact

That review by Chris Schwarz is ancient history - it dates back to 2004 and any quality control issues have long been corrected.

I have five Clifton bench planes, two shoulder planes and one spokeshave and they are all perfect.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[CHJ]

.....That review by Chris Schwarz is ancient history - it dates back to 2004 and any quality control issues have long been corrected....

But unfortunately it comes top in an Internet search because it has been the subject of many references.
Such as here

Until there is enough positive information published in prominent locations or a well presented company web site that provides a plethora of links for the web bots to catalogue they are not going to get positive exposure to first time searchers looking for Internet information.

Typing Clifton into a search engine needs to show Clifton Planes high up on the list, and that list to start off with positive quality and information links.

Just like typing in Axminster

Or daft as it seams Hobby Turner.

 

[CHJ]

Out of interest, just did a visitor traffic check on my hobby site, It has no public exposure other than on two or three forum site links.

This is a typical monthly traffic record.

Now unless my maths are very astray that's something in the order of a different visitor every 8 mins. during an average 8hr 7 day week.
Now if it was a commercial site and just 10% of those visitors made a purchase I could have a bit more pocket money each month. :tool:

 

[Scouse]

I agree with what Jacob said. The fact that the review by Schwarz is 8 years old apparently is irrelevant. If I look for a Clifton plane on the web, how do I know they have improved their quality control? I don't because they are hiding, so I go to Veritas where I know quality control is good, or ebay where I know a used plane will need work, but costs £200 less.

I wouldn't have said my post was a rant, every point was valid.

How would you advise Clico to improve their marketing?

Which bit of this did you not understand?

As for what I'd do, I would PROMOTE! I did a lot of research before I bought my planes, and the lack of access to any meaningful information on Clifton put me off. An indifferent review from Chris Schwarz and a 'How It's Made' documentary by an AMERICAN company is not enough if they want to do better than just 'survive' in a market against North American big hitters.

They have valuable unique selling points which they just disregard. And it costs them money; I would have rather spent my money on Cliftons, but a couple of general pages on a site and not even 'Clifton.com' but hidden within Clico's domain and half ar*ed when you find it (reversed photograph??? Very professional looking...).

Google Clifton planes and they are 9th on the list. Why are they not first with their own domain name? Schwarz's bad review is the first hit on Google. Why have they not tried to counter this? A reply? Rebuttal? Send him another plane?

Any other Youtube videos? Demonstrations? Explanations of the range? Explaining why they are better? It's cheap advertising, thats why L/N and Veritas do it. Why not Clifton?

What would make you want to buy a Clifton if you were in the market for a new plane?

Nothing at the moment. If I'm going to spend roughly £250 on a No5, for example, I do research, as do the many on this forum, as the mutltitude of 'which whatever should I buy' threads testify. I want to know what makes it worth the money, why it's an improvement over it's competitors, and whether the company will still be in existence in a years time if I need a part.

 

[Scouse]

BUT WAIT!!!

They must be listening, the picture on the website has been turned the right way round! =D>

There's hope yet.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Well, to be honest Scouse, that wasn't really what I was trying to get at. Maybe I asked the question in the wrong way. You say they should promote their products more - well, yes, most people posting on this thread seem to agree - but HOW was what I was trying to get at.

I think CHJ made a valuable point with his comment about website hits. The problem for many SMEs is that there are many people out there saying they can build websites, but rather fewer that can do it well. Clico perhaps need to research the web marketing gurus of Sheffield (and perhaps further afield to find a really good one) to find a firm that will build and host a clear, well presented site, spend time with Clico staff to train them how to update it regularly, and apply the tricks of the trade to get the site higher up the Google searches. Then think out some clear, concise, informative text that gets across the quality and unique features of Clifton planes. Add some good photographs (or even video clips) of the manufacturing process and the tools in use, and links to all the retailers stocking Clifton, and they'll have an electronic brochure that can be kept up to date. Quality is the key, though - there are lots of website designers; not all are that good.

Then perhaps they need to promote the website. A campaign of simple, clear adverts in the woodworking mags (nothing fancy, quarter page would do) to get people to look at the site and get the hits count up should do. No need to be every issue of every mag, either. Just often enough to be noticed.

Clico already demonstrate regularly at woodworking shows, which is positive face-to-face marketing well worth continuing.

Quality control issues - as far as I know - have long ago been addressed. I have three Clifton shoulder planes, two of them from their early production, And I've never had a problem with them. I haven't had to do any fettling beyond honing the irons, and I wouldn't part with them for a big gold clock. I also have an early Clifton replacement iron and stay-set capiron in my try plane, and no quality control issues there, either. Perhaps Clifton could add a note to their site to the effect that if you have a problem, no matter how old your Clifton, get in touch and they'll do their best to sort it - that, after all, is what they do now if comments on this forum are anything to go by.

Beyond that, I don't think Clifton ought to do anything much else. No gimmicks. No expensive stunts. Just old fashioned high quality products backed by excellent after-sales service to customers. In the end, reputation will count more than Schwarz's slightly bigotted 'not-made-in-America' attempts to trash the product. The planes will be around a lot longer than Schwarz will, after all - in all probability, Clico will be around a lot longer than Schwarz will.

Finally - just a marketing thought for Scouse. You've called Clico's management incompetent - the entire staff of Clico and most of their business associates may well have made a mental note never to buy a violin made in Liverpool on the strength of that!

 

[Sawyer]

Totally agree with all of that, Cheshire Chappie!

'Clico already demonstrate regularly at woodworking shows, which is positive face-to-face marketing well worth continuing.'

This is one thing they certainly are good at. Chat to the demo staff, pick the tooks up, give them a test run on the timber provided... and you want to own one there and then!

Whatever the shortcomings of the marketing, when you get your hands on a Clifton plane, it speaks for itself.

 

[paulm]

Totally agree with all of that, Cheshire Chappie!

'Clico already demonstrate regularly at woodworking shows, which is positive face-to-face marketing well worth continuing.'

This is one thing they certainly are good at. Chat to the demo staff, pick the tooks up, give them a test run on the timber provided... and you want to own one there and then!

Whatever the shortcomings of the marketing, when you get your hands on a Clifton plane, it speaks for itself.

Exactly what I did

Played with a Cliffie 5 1/2, and others, at a show, ordered a partial set of the anniversary versions, and promptly sold all of my Lie Neilsens :shock: :lol:

The LN's were fine tools but the Cliftons just "spoke to me", beyond their functional excellence, must be the aesthetics and/or ergonomics I guess and they just felt "right" in use and in the hand.

Mick Hudson, Clifton's demonstrator at the shows, is very knowledgeable, hugely enthuisastic, and a great guy to have a chat to about planes, sharpening and loads of other stuff if you get the chance, a real enthusiast.

Cheers, Paul

 

[CHJ]

......I think CHJ made a valuable point with his comment about website hits. ..

I'm a complete novice as far as web site design and modern marketing methods but taking a look at the Clico/Clifton site when following this thread the main thing that struck me when reading the various header pages was how out of date most of them were.
If product and development timescales are highlighted in the text or production problems highlighted because of floods then to see those comments still in place 3-4-5 years down the line and page revision dates likewise is not good. They belong in an ongoing blog not on an out of date section front page.

I wonder if it's the lack of appreciation of the difference in market for hand/craft tools and the 'professional' Clico market.

I personally don't own a Clifton, they would be far too good to wreck on the odd bit of wood mangling I do these days, but I am always impressed on the sheer weight and feel and standard of finish of any I have handled at the various shows.

 

[iNewbie]

Why do they not have any video of Mr.Hudson on their website. Any type of self-promotion (in a good light) is worth its weight-in-gold. Both LN and Veritas do. Their site offers a Worldwide audience.

 

[Scouse]

Clico perhaps need to research the web marketing gurus of Sheffield (and perhaps further afield to find a really good one) to find a firm that will build and host a clear, well presented site, spend time with Clico staff to train them how to update it regularly, and apply the tricks of the trade to get the site higher up the Google searches. Then think out some clear, concise, informative text that gets across the quality and unique features of Clifton planes. Add some good photographs (or even video clips) of the manufacturing process and the tools in use, and links to all the retailers stocking Clifton, and they'll have an electronic brochure that can be kept up to date. Quality is the key, though - there are lots of website designers; not all are that good.

Then perhaps they need to promote the website. A campaign of simple, clear adverts in the woodworking mags (nothing fancy, quarter page would do) to get people to look at the site and get the hits count up should do. No need to be every issue of every mag, either. Just often enough to be noticed.

Clico already demonstrate regularly at woodworking shows, which is positive face-to-face marketing well worth continuing.

Quality control issues - as far as I know - have long ago been addressed. I have three Clifton shoulder planes, two of them from their early production, And I've never had a problem with them. I haven't had to do any fettling beyond honing the irons, and I wouldn't part with them for a big gold clock. I also have an early Clifton replacement iron and stay-set capiron in my try plane, and no quality control issues there, either. Perhaps Clifton could add a note to their site to the effect that if you have a problem, no matter how old your Clifton, get in touch and they'll do their best to sort it - that, after all, is what they do now if comments on this forum are anything to go by.

Beyond that, I don't think Clifton ought to do anything much else. No gimmicks. No expensive stunts. In the end, reputation will count more than Schwarz's slightly bigotted 'not-made-in-America' attempts to trash the product. The planes will be around a lot longer than Schwarz will, after all - in all probability, Clico will be around a lot longer than Schwarz will.

That's all they need, clear, detailed, fresh and kept up to date with new content, video, pictures etc regularly added. If a couple of blokes on a forum can see that why can't the management?

I don't think that 'Just old fashioned high quality products backed by excellent after-sales service to customers.' is enough though in a massive global market; it's important, yes but bells and whistles pull 'em in. For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3nojb-gFH4

It's just a bloke making a knife, but it gives the impression of more, helps to create a brand and if even if a tiny fraction of the people who view his video buy a tool, it's worth the bit of effort and expense.

As to your final marketing thought, thanks for the concern, but I'll be ok; although if they can't take criticism, however truthful and robust (and bear in mind they deserve it; the biggest outlet for hand tools in the country just dropped them for lack of sales), intended at shaking them out of a deep, expensive snooze then maybe I should reconsider and add a few more adjectives! I give credit where it's due, and if I'm a bit brusque, so be it, but people's jobs depend on them and the celebration of mediocrity which left British industry unable to compete is present here.

Credit to them though, as I said above, the website has been updated in the last day or so. =D>

 

[bobbybirds]

Well I think this thread may actually be helping Clifton with their marketing woes. I have never considered one but now I actually want to go out and find a nice #4 and see what they are all about! I have to admit, looking at the pictures, I love the the way they look... Even more than the LN's.

Now I just have to find a place in Canada where I can get one. Heck, maybe I can find someone to work out an interesting tool trade!

 

[jimi43]

Well I think this thread may actually be helping Clifton with their marketing woes. I have never considered one but now I actually want to go out and find a nice #4 and see what they are all about! I have to admit, looking at the pictures, I love the the way they look... Even more than the LN's.

Now I just have to find a place in Canada where I can get one. Heck, maybe I can find someone to work out an interesting tool trade!

There ya go! Exactly what I'm talking about!

Thanks BB (mkII)!

Jim

 

[RichardL]

Nice to see Clifton getting good press here. I still cant help feel there is a deeper issue that is summed up quite well here http://ukmade.wordpress.com/about/
So, while we can make valid suggestions about Clico marketing their wares, unless locals make a concious effort to support them, they could go the same way as many, many other UK manufacturers. Fortunately, all their eggs aren't in one basket and they seem to supply on another level to other industries.

 

[bobbybirds]

Nice to see Clifton getting good press here. I still cant help feel there is a deeper issue that is summed up quite well here http://ukmade.wordpress.com/about/
So, while we can make valid suggestions about Clico marketing their wares, unless locals make a concious effort to support them, they could go the same way as many, many other UK manufacturers. Fortunately, all their eggs aren't in one basket and they seem to supply on another level to other industries.

I feel this is true. Sadly, we as consumers are what drives a companies direction, and while we demand quality of our own local manufacturers, we support lesser expensive foreign products that are produced by companies who basically steal technology and manufacturer in countries that use and abuse their employees and workers, taking advantage of their lot in life so we can save a bit of money. I know all the arguments that go for and against this capitalistic ideal, but in the end, I feel more comfortable dealing with companies who recognize fair treatment of workers and who do more for our local economy as well as our neighbouring economies that play by those same rules.

How can people complain about the local manufacturers that they do not even pretend to support is a bit beyond me, but it is what it is. By continuing down the path we are going, we are all going to end up in the same trap of making less money, only being able to afford the cheap offshore options, in turn driving our local economies into the tank, in turn reinforcing our reliance of cheap offshore options, etc, etc, etc.. Any wonder why the middle class is shrinking at a massive rate? I wish more people could realize this...

 

[matthewwh]

Why do they not have any video of Mr.Hudson on their website. Any type of self-promotion (in a good light) is worth its weight-in-gold. Both LN and Veritas do. Their site offers a Worldwide audience.

I suspect that they will be adding video etc in due course.

Bearing in mind that there was no Clico website at all six months ago, I think they have already made remarkable headway and demonstrated a commitment to making public relations a high priority for management.

In all fairness, they have had several very unlucky episodes in the past few years. The factory is right next to the river Don - hence Burton Weir Works. During the Sheffield floods a couple of years ago the whole factory filled with eight feet of rusty water - all stock and semi-finished work gone overnight, every piece of machinery needed a full overhaul (including some Victorian ones that you can't just order parts for) and then they had to start again from scratch.

Back when they first started out, the foundry that cast the first production run delivered a batch of substandard castings and then promptly went bust. This was a couple of weeks before a big US trade show so they had no choice but to take what they had and make the best of it. To add insult to injury Clifton's casting patterns disappeared with the rest of the seized equipment and the whole lot had to be re-made before they could start afresh with a new foundry (who did a far superior job and still make the castings to this day). It was one of these 'first batch' planes that the now notorious Chris Schwartz review was based upon. Fair play to Chris he can only comment upon what he sees at the time, but a lot changes in a decade and an up to date review that reflects what Clifton have been making for the other 9-1/2 years of their existence is now long overdue.

In view of all of this they have done bloody well to keep going, but thanks to an awful lot of hard work and a growing number of fiercely loyal users who get the whole 'real engineering vs consumer manufacturing' thing, I believe they have turned a corner and we can all look forward to a much brighter future.

 

[xy mosian]

I don't own a Clifton Plane. It would be nice to see, amongst all these very positive comments, a well thought out review by a user. Posting on here would be a good start perhaps.
xy

 

[Paul Chapman]

Chris Knight did a brief review of the Clifton #3 here viewtopic.php?t=1381 (it's in the Hand Tool Review links).

I have a Clifton #3 as well - a really great plane

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

I've got a Record 3. Also brilliant. Although smaller the bits aren't all scaled down so you get a sturdy but little plane which cuts really well.
My tip for Clifton - make a 5 1/2 with a solid frog/body and adjustable mouth, like the Stanley SW 4. It's the plane everybody wants, even if they don't know it yet!