Clifton plane sale!

[Phil Pascoe]

Being a 5 1/2 lover, that seems a good idea to me.

 

[Scouse]

In all fairness, they have had several very unlucky episodes in the past few years. The factory is right next to the river Don - hence Burton Weir Works. During the Sheffield floods a couple of years ago the whole factory filled with eight feet of rusty water - all stock and semi-finished work gone overnight, every piece of machinery needed a full overhaul (including some Victorian ones that you can't just order parts for) and then they had to start again from scratch.

Back when they first started out, the foundry that cast the first production run delivered a batch of substandard castings and then promptly went bust. This was a couple of weeks before a big US trade show so they had no choice but to take what they had and make the best of it. To add insult to injury Clifton's casting patterns disappeared with the rest of the seized equipment and the whole lot had to be re-made before they could start afresh with a new foundry (who did a far superior job and still make the castings to this day). It was one of these 'first batch' planes that the now notorious Chris Schwartz review was based upon. Fair play to Chris he can only comment upon what he sees at the time, but a lot changes in a decade and an up to date review that reflects what Clifton have been making for the other 9-1/2 years of their existence is now long overdue.

Wow tough breaks and bad timing!

I apologise for my harsh comments re: management, I guess they've had enough to contend with and done very well to still be in business at all. Lesson learned on my part! :-#

 

[bobbybirds]

I am actually getting quite excited about the prospect of buying a Clifton now! Way to go guys... My lovely bride thought I was FINALLY done with major handtool purchasing, and now you have presented me with a new dog to chase!

matthewwh - So as a Canadian who wants to order a new No.4, is there any way for me to confirm whether or not I am buying new, currently manufactured Clifton's rather than old stock that was sub-standard? I know I can ask but often the person one talks with on the phone really has no real in depth knowledge on these things and you end up just getting the easy answer that you want to hear rather than the straight goods...

 

[jimi43]

I am actually getting quite excited about the prospect of buying a Clifton now! Way to go guys... My lovely bride thought I was FINALLY done with major handtool purchasing, and now you have presented me with a new dog to chase!

matthewwh - So as a Canadian who wants to order a new No.4, is there any way for me to confirm whether or not I am buying new, currently manufactured Clifton's rather than old stock that was sub-standard? I know I can ask but often the person one talks with on the phone really has no real in depth knowledge on these things and you end up just getting the easy answer that you want to hear rather than the straight goods...

There ya go! Viral marketing...worth its weight in gold! :wink:

Frankly...since not one person has said anything other than praise for Clifton planes and since this thread is already attracted more attention than any other on this part of the forum, I think this can only be good for Clifton. And they seem to be watching it otherwise who changed the shop window? :lol:

I have no problems in speaking on behalf of Matthew, BB.....to preserve his modesty you understand...but in all my dealings with him he has been a top notch supplier and if I were on the lookout for any tool...I would check if WSH has it first. You can deal with them without hesitation.

As for us Brits not being patriotic...balderdash!!! I've said it once but I'll say it again...we don't wave flags about and make fools of ourselves but we do love our country. But just because someone doesn't buy a product made in the UK over another doesn't make them unpatriotic!

I challenge anyone who takes this stand to say they always buy British...that their whole house has British goods in it and the car they drive is totally made in Britain with British parts. In fact wait...if I do get a response you lose straight away, cos you sure as hell are not typing on a British made computer! 8)

We live in a global world, trading globally. It's impossible for it to be any other way. To do so would really be our downfall.

The pound is weak at the moment...now's the time for our old buddies in the Colonies to buy British...cheap as chips! Let's get the balance of trade flowing the other way for once.

So...that's my 2p worth...now I'm off to lunch with Kelly Brook! :mrgreen:

God...don'tcha just love utopia!

Jim

 

[Fromey]

Wow tough breaks and bad timing!

I apologise for my harsh comments re: management, I guess they've had enough to contend with and done very well to still be in business at all. Lesson learned on my part! :-#

Well played sir. =D>

 

[bobbybirds]

As for us Brits not being patriotic...balderdash!!! I've said it once but I'll say it again...we don't wave flags about and make fools of ourselves but we do love our country. But just because someone doesn't buy a product made in the UK over another doesn't make them unpatriotic!

I challenge anyone who takes this stand to say they always buy British...that their whole house has British goods in it and the car they drive is totally made in Britain with British parts. In fact wait...if I do get a response you lose straight away, cos you sure as hell are not typing on a British made computer! 8)

We live in a global world, trading globally. It's impossible for it to be any other way. To do so would really be our downfall.

The pound is weak at the moment...now's the time for our old buddies in the Colonies to buy British...cheap as chips! Let's get the balance of trade flowing the other way for once.

So...that's my 2p worth...now I'm off to lunch with Kelly Brook! :mrgreen:

God...don'tcha just love utopia!

Jim

I hear you 100% and let me first say, I am not at all questioning the patriotism of Brits whatsoever! Us Canadians owe a whole lot to our British heritage, myself included. I was speaking more to the thought that any and all of us around the globe would do well by trying to purchase as much locally produced (to our individual areas) goods as possible when the options are there.

I totally agree that we live in a global economy, but look at that global economy and see who is reaping the benefits and who is falling by the side of the road. We are being conditioned to accept that cheaper is better and that makes it easier for the man (ie big business rather than smaller specialized companies) to convince us that we can get cheaper by moving production overseas where they can take advantage of the virtual non-existence of fair worker treatment, environmental laws, and corrupt patent laws. It is a vicious circle where that local manufacturing cannot compete with these issues so they just close or get on board and move, in turn forcing those now unemployed and/or lower wage earning people to rely on the big business that killed their jobs.

Of course there is no easy, quick fix for this, but big business only functions with our spending habits, so unless we are willing to start changing them as a whole, it is only going to get worse. We tend to think that it is just the way it is and there is nothing one can do about it, or even have come to believe that it is good for us, but that is definitely not so IMHO.

Like I said, it isn't going to change anytime soon, but it will never change if people don't make the effort, as painful as it might be. Seeing some of the support here for Clifton though is exactly the kind of thing that is needed and I applaud that for sure! Sadly though, I see way more threads where someone comes looking for advice on buying new hand tool recommendations (not speaking of the used tool recommendations as that is different because that does tend to support your neighbours directly at the source) and the vast majority of people not only suggest buying the Chinese knock offs, but make a person feel stupid for not buying them! They seem to try and make them feel as if our local manufacturers are just a bunch of rip off artists and that by supporting them you are wasting your money! It makes me sad. (note that I am not speaking of this forum specifically, but in general. Our Canadian and US based forums are no different!)

Anyways, please do not interpret this as having no British love! Quite the opposite actually... I want to see all of my ancestors have a good shot at a quality life of fulfillment and enjoyment, and woodworking definitely helps! I just want to enjoy some of your British tools now and hope they will be there for many years to come!

 

[iNewbie]

So...that's my 2p worth...now I'm off to lunch with Kelly Brook! :mrgreen:

Ask her to get her clifton's out, for the lads. :mrgreen:

 

[Jacob]

So what is the patriotic position with respect to Stanley? Are they British?
I notice the literature with my recent plane purchase refers back to Belgium but there was a reference somewhere to the new Stanleys being developed by Brits. Are they evil foreigners or what?

 

[bobbybirds]

So what is the patriotic position with respect to Stanley? Are they British?
I notice the literature with my recent plane purchase refers back to Belgium but there was a reference somewhere to the new Stanleys being developed by Brits. Are they evil foreigners or what?

I am referring to support of local manufacturing more than locally owned or bred. My point being your local population will have more money to inject into your local economy if all your money is not being sent and horded overseas.

Look, there is no denying that we are all guilty of it. Guilty may not be the right word for it as much as we are forced to do it, but when given a choice I will always prefer to deal locally first, or if I choose to go outside local,I will always try to deal with those that play fair rather than with those with shady albeit legal (grey area) business practices at the expense of everyone else...

 

[MIGNAL]

But you are located in Canada, yet Clifton are in Sheffield UK? Man speaks with forked tongue.

 

[bobbybirds]

But you are located in Canada, yet Clifton are in Sheffield UK? Man speaks with forked tongue.

Ahhh but I covered my butt with the final part of my previous comment... Ha!

Look, there is no denying that we are all guilty of it. Guilty may not be the right word for it as much as we are forced to do it, but when given a choice I will always prefer to deal locally first, or if I choose to go outside local,I will always try to deal with those that play fair rather than with those with shady albeit legal (grey area) business practices at the expense of everyone else...

 

[bobbybirds]

Oh, and I thought I would point out to anyone who may not be aware, but matthewwh from WSH seems like a great and professional seller! I sent him a quick PM earlier regarding the purchase of a Clifton No.4 and what is involved with the taxes and shipping etc and he got back to me in no time flat! He broke it all down to me and explained the extra precautions they take with international shipping etc, the warranty of the plane, the cost difference due to local taxes not having to be collected on international orders, shipping options and costs, and even an approximate cost conversion from British to Canadian dollars. Now being from Canada I am used to some pretty stellar service via Lee Valley Tools, but just my initial dealings indicate to me that they (he) also understands customer service... Thumbs up here!

Thanks for the referral jimi43!

 

[Fromey]

Yep, that's pretty standard for WSH.

Oh, and I thought I would point out to anyone who may not be aware, but matthewwh from WSH seems like a great and professional seller! I sent him a quick PM earlier regarding the purchase of a Clifton No.4 and what is involved with the taxes and shipping etc and he got back to me in no time flat! He broke it all down to me and explained the extra precautions they take with international shipping etc, the warranty of the plane, the cost difference due to local taxes not having to be collected on international orders, shipping options and costs, and even an approximate cost conversion from British to Canadian dollars. Now being from Canada I am used to some pretty stellar service via Lee Valley Tools, but just my initial dealings indicate to me that they (he) also understands customer service... Thumbs up here!

Thanks for the referral jimi43!

 

[Jacob]

Perhaps Matthew can answer my Stanley question (above) and tell us why he doesn't stock them?
PS and he doesn't stock a number of other basic essentials such as M Norton oil stones. Why not?

 

[matthewwh]

is there any way for me to confirm whether or not I am buying new, currently manufactured Clifton's rather than old stock that was sub-standard?

The first batch was over ten years ago, perhaps a dozen of each size, so they are long gone now. Knowing Alan's predisposition for standards, I would be surprised if any remaining stock wasn't scrapped as soon as the new castings came through.

Thanks to 'the review' we used to get a lot of - 'can you just check it before you send it?' so we did, all of them, every single plane we sold for five years straight. We have now stopped checking them as we never found anything to worry about - there comes a point where you just have to accept that any prior issues have been satisfactorily resolved. The only exception now are export orders, for which all products get an extra look over as it is trickier to deal with returns.

Jacob,

I believe the new Stanleys bodies are made in Mexico and the blades are made in Sheffield, global brand, global manufacturing, no idea about the nationality of the design team or the Belgian connection - centralised customer services for Europe perhaps? I did consider stocking them and wouldn't necessarily rule it out for the future, but as with so many other products its a question of allocating limited investment/time/marketing resources.

 

[iNewbie]

A tool in the USA for $100 I can usually expect to pay £100 for it by the time it gets here. How is it Clifton's are cheaper in the USA? What am I missing - apart from some grey-matter!

The Best Things.

I.e: #5 in USA = £194
................UK = £262

 

[Vann]

When I imported Cliftons (2 off + an iron + 2 cap-irons) I didn't have to pay VAT (20%, as I'm outside the EUC). What's more, because each purchase was under $NZ500, I didn't have to pay NZ's GST (15%). And both WH and CHT were very helpful with finding the cheapest shipping.

But that doesn't really answer your question (sorry).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Jake]

A tool in the USA for $100 I can usually expect to pay £100 for it by the time it gets here. How is it Clifton's are cheaper in the USA? What am I missing - apart from some grey-matter!

The Best Things.

I.e: #5 in USA = £194
................UK = £262

Priced against the competition, rather than cost of production/margin.

Edit: On a generous view they are trying to crack the market in the states, or someone over there has overstocked.

 

[Sawyer]

Well, I've just supported Clifton in the best way possible: by buying one. My third.

A 420 - and very good it is too. Straight out of the box.

 

[RichardL]

But you are located in Canada, yet Clifton are in Sheffield UK? Man speaks with forked tongue.

Well, I emigrated to New Zealand with my parents quite a few years ago so I can hardly call Sheffield local either now. I buy locally made (NZ) stuff where possible but also tend to support UK made due to my connections. I think for me the choice is related to dealing with companies who stay true to their roots. Since I was a kid, MADE IN ENGLAND stamped on something from toys to tools to telescopes (another hobby) to all sorts of things, stood for something. I remember being very proud of my Record tool collection in younger days but if you buy a Record vice for example nowadays, well, I don't need to raise that here I'm sure, thanks to our friends at Irwin :twisted: . Its the same with many things that end up moving to a cheaper manufacturing area and the same applies over here. Even worse, once the manufacturing has moved off-shore, the price eventually goes back up to close to the original, so it's the middle-man/retailer making the bucks, the consumer doesn't win and gets an inferior product (e.g. Dr Martens). It really irritates when the good name of a older company or historical location is used to sell rubbish. The name of Sheffield is used in such a way with several lines.

Sorry about the rant, it just baffles me why companies that make quality products don't get the support they deserve (although Clico are doing OK here, and rightly so). I think Kinky Boots (the movie ) made some very true comments when the chap tried to get the retailer to sell his brogues that would last a lifetime...
Retailer: "Imported from Slovakia. Wanna know how much?
Manufacturer: "A Price's shoe will last a man a lifetime. Poor sod that buys these will be back in ten months for new ones.
Retailer: I know. And isn't that great?"

I bought a locally made jacket a few weeks ago. It has, stitched into the lining, proudly made by Donna. Its well made, local, and the company has stayed true to its advertising and origins. Good for them!! I feel that Cliftons are similar to this (even if a plane isn't signed personally) it's genuine, not a knock off.

Cheers
R