Clifton plane sale!

[matthewwh]

The Clifton factory is the old Record factory, same guys, same machines, same building.

The only things that have gone are the Record brand and all the cost saving measures.

 

[Scouse]

The Clifton factory is the old Record factory, same guys, same machines, same building.

Really? I never knew that. I guess there would be issues in using that information in promotional material with the 'Record' name still in use, but it does give an interesting back story, and a well respected historical lineage.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The Clifton factory is the old Record factory, same guys, same machines, same building.

Really? I never knew that. I guess there would be issues in using that information in promotional material with the 'Record' name still in use, but it does give an interesting back story, and a well respected historical lineage.

I think it goes back even further than that. Record (C & J Hampton) bought out the Preston company in about 1932, so the family resemblance between Clifton shoulder planes and Preston ones is perfectly legitimate. The original Record factory was elsewhere in Sheffield, though, I think - and no longer exists.

Edit to add - I think Clico's home (Burton Weir Works) was originally the William Ridgway works. Record and Ridgeway were amalgamated sometime in the 1980s, I think.

A bit of background reading - http://www.getwoodworking.com/news/arti ... -oaks/917/

 

[Vann]

The Clifton factory is the old Record factory, same guys, same machines, same building.

I'm not sure that's correct.

The original Record factory was elsewhere in Sheffield, though, I think - and no longer exists.

That's what I thought.

According to Andy King's article "From Mighty Oaks" http://www.getwoodworking.com/news/arti ... -oaks/917/
"...In 1987, then, when the opportunity arose to acquire Morrisons, a Sheffield forging company, Clico bought into a very different set of skills to those used in the aircraft industry, ones that rely on traditional techniques that date back for generations.

Morrisons’ Burton Weir works is split into two parts, one part specifically for the manufacture of the range of Clifton planes, the other for manufacturing augers, hollow mortise chisels and other wood cutting tools sold under the Clico and Morrisons brands."

So it would appear that Clico manufacture their Clifton range at the old Morrisons plant - possibly using machinery ex-Record - although even that doesn't quite add up: Record ceased producing planes in UK ~2004, but Clico began making bench planes three years earlier (and shoulder planes some years before that). :duno:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[MIGNAL]

Started from Record Marples according to this:

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... lanes.html

 

[Vann]

Mick Hudson from Clifton has shown me a prototype Block plane at one of my Open days and it looks like a winner, not sure if its going into production but I do hope so,

That prototype Clifton block plane is a real cracker. It's been around a long time and I've handled it a few times. Feels lovely in the hand - really tactile. I think Mike Hudson shares our frustration that it's not yet in production.

It looks like a No.9½ to me, with a wooden lever-cap - but I've only got this tiny photo to go by (sent to me by a fellow formite some years ago). Adjustable mouth; some adjustment to the cutting iron (hard to tell...).

Anyone know anymore about it?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[iNewbie]

The Clifton factory is the old Record factory, same guys, same machines, same building.

The only things that have gone are the Record brand and all the cost saving measures.

Doesn't allude to that on their website, Matthew.

Clifton Site FAQ

 

[Paul Chapman]

Anyone know anymore about it?

The one I've seen and handled is a low angle, #60 1/2 style. Mike Hudson has shown it to various people at shows to gauge their reaction - most of which seem to have been very positive as far as I can tell. I don't know whether the design has been finalised so any comments on what the production version will be like would be speculation.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[matthewwh]

"Clico (Sheffield) Tooling Limited was established in 1983 as the result of a Management buy out from Record Ridgway Tools. Initially Clico acquired the machinery, personnel and design rights to a range of cutting tools for the Aerospace industry."

Ah - the building may have come from the Ridgeway side then, or been a separate deal. I stand corrected and will check with Clico next time I talk with them.

 

[Vann]

The one I've seen and handled is a low angle, #60 1/2 style.

Low angle - that's even better!

I hope it has a 1⅜" iron (not the 1⅝" of some No.60½s). I found the Veritas LABP to be too bulky in my hand (and I have largish hands). Hmm... I could be in the market for one of those.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

Doesn't allude to that on their website.

Clifton Site FAQ

"In 1987 the Manager of the Record Plane Department was made redundant and Clico invited him to set up a unit manufacturing specialists Planes. The first item was the Clifton Multiplane (Record 405; Stanley 45)..."

Wow :shock: what a plane to start with :!:

LV and L-N seem to have started with edge planes. LV have produced 5 models to date: bronze; iron RH; iron LH; stainless &; miniature. And I think L-N may have done more than one.

I wonder how many multi-planes Clifton sell in a year (I've seen the price :shock: )?

Also interesting that that was the year before the Record CS88 was launched. The CS88 also came out in British Racing Green.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Ah - the building may have come from the Ridgeway side then, or been a separate deal. I stand corrected and will check with Clico next time I talk with them.

Record's most notable address, Parkway works in Sheffield, still stands and has an Irwin sign outside, according to streetview. Clico's current trading address is a rather nondescript looking contemporary light industrial unit. But Record have had at least 2 other adresses in Sheffield, and Clico may have other permises ?

I don't have any Clifton planes , but I did consider one when I wanted a #6. Instead I bought an old Record one off Ebay, which arrived with a very poor replacement Stanley blade, and a terrible cap iron that did not look like a Record part - looked like a thin bit of blue spring steel. So, I put a Clifton cutting iron and 2 piece cap iron in it . I bought them via Thomas Flinn, and for the price of asking nicely they threw in the new longer cap iron screw. The plane now works very well - leaves a glassy smooth surface on oak which does not seem to be inproved further by sanding or scraping. The most surprising thing is not that it does this when freshly sharpened - my other planes can do that - but it still leaves a good finish untill it is really rather blunt. I assume that the added rigidity must allow it to work better even when not razor sharp. The iron is now clearly the best part of the plane, and adding up the cost of the plane, postage and the irons, I just wonder if I shouldn't have stumped up for a new Clifton in the first place !

 

[Max Power]

I have several cliftons and lie nielsons and much prefer the irons in the cliftons. My next plane will be a clifton and my suggestion for the next addition to their line would be a really good vice

 

[bugbear]

The most surprising thing is not that it does this when freshly sharpened - my other planes can do that - but it still leaves a good finish untill it is really rather blunt. I assume that the added rigidity must allow it to work better even when not razor sharp.

Interesting.

Joel (of Tools for working wood) has stated that the most remarkable property of infills is how well they work when the blade is not freshly sharpened.

Edit: I looked up the quote:

"The real test of infills and why they are treasured by a lot of craftsman is what happens to performance as the blade dulls (test it out and see)."

link to the article

BugBear

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have several cliftons and lie nielsons and much prefer the irons in the cliftons. My next plane will be a clifton and my suggestion for the next addition to their line would be a really good vice

It would be interesting to see what other people think Clifton could or should be making, I have had some Dakota vices which luckily are guaranteed for life but would love to change them for a quality English made replacement.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Since Paramo have packed up, there does seem to be a bit of a gap in the market for a high quality face vice. Mind you, the tooling costs to produce one would be very significant; financial unviability may kill the idea if sales volume to justify the investment couldn't be guaranteed.

A couple of things Clico might consider are a plough plane, a rebate plane and a hand router. The old Record small plough (043?) seems to be a sought-after and well-regarded tool, so a design for something along those lines might go down well. Such tools would fit nicely into their existing range, and are not so dissimilar to current products that tooling costs would be prohibitive. I'm not sure where that would leave Clico regarding Irwin Record's product rights, though.

Edit to add - a high angle smoothing plane (say, 60 degrees) might be worth a punt. The only redesign would be the frog casting and possibly the cap-iron (so that it didn't block the plane's mouth).

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Would like to see a T5.
A 043 would be nice, but price point may be difficult, with the more versatile Veritas small plough covering the same niche.
A relatively simple.unique offering, like perhaps a Lancashire pattern plane might be a good idea.

 

[jimi43]

I don't think that going back in time would do them justice for the future...much though I would love to see the Lancashire pattern plane resurrected - trust me on that one mate!

No...I think that their R&D is probably on the right track with modernisation...the same as the new Aston Martin is pure poetry but the old DBs are also wonderful....

Let's think about what is strong.

1) British reputation..."Made in England" has still an amazing amount of power overseas and at home. Look at the Union Flag in Cuba recently! I once made a cover for my Truly British VOX AC30 amp and a mate in the USA said if I ever wanted to start a business...make some more but put "Handmade in England" on it...with a Union flag! He would have a huge market for them!

2) They are built like brick watsits! Sell that!

3) The irons/cap irons are so much more accessible to the mass market...play and expand on that strength.

4) I am not sure about this last one but didn't the "Limited Editions" sell like hotcakes? Did you have any left Matthew? Was this a disaster?

But most of all...they need to take the brand and run with it and shout it from every magazine, internet blog, forum...anything viral they can think about and get the hype running.

They make a beautiful product which I would buy...if I didn't already cover my needs with my infills. I would buy them over LN or Veritas.

I still think spreading the word is the key and with the greatest respect of those who stand there at shows and in the green fields of England...that is not the global market, it is invisible to the global market...and the global market is where it lies. BB (MkII) proved that! Have you placed your order yet mate!?

Jim

 

[Vann]

A couple of things Clico might consider are a plough plane, a rebate plane and a hand router. The old Record small plough (043?) seems to be a sought-after and well-regarded tool, so a design for something along those lines might go down well
...a high angle smoothing plane (say, 60 degrees) might be worth a punt. The only redesign would be the frog casting and possibly the cap-iron (so that it didn't block the plane's mouth).

L-N & LV have the hand router market well catered for, and it would take a lot to equal LVs skew rebate planes.

But the only plough that comes to mind is LVs - and it's based on the Record 044 size, so there might well be an opening for a 043 alike.

Would there be a market for a 60 degree bench plane? L-N have 50° and 55° well covered.

I like the idea of a T5 or 5¼ (or combination of the two).

My tuppence worth....

Cheers, Vann

 

[mark w]

A good pattern makers vice would be nice, I think Lee valley made them at one time which were really good quality, the Axminster version is not that good.