Clifton plane sale!

[mark w]

Not wanting to stir up too much, I feel you've missed something. The low angle planes need the iron loosening by 1/2 a turn to adjust them. It is clearly stated on both their website and in the enclosed instructions.
~Nil carborundum illegitemi~[/quote]



I have`nt read that and I did miss it, but you need to loosen the cap iron by more than half a turn to adjust the blade on the 71/2, I noticed on the low angle jack the cap iron does not sit so far forward, it is a good distance away from the bevel, I think this due to the different thicknesses of blade.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

There is a "How it's made" episode which shows the manufacture of Clifton planes. Interesting that they chose Clifton not a manufacturer from the Americas. The making of the blade is the unique bit, I think - others might start with ground flat stock, but no - round bar, forged then laser cut. Glorious mix of the traditional and newfangled !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdH43wiB0IA

 

[AndyT]

There is a "How it's made" episode which shows the manufacture of Clifton planes. Interesting that they chose Clifton not a manufacturer from the Americas. The making of the blade is the unique bit, I think - others might start with ground flat stock, but no - round bar, forged then laser cut. Glorious mix of the traditional and newfangled !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdH43wiB0IA

That's true, and it's a great story of why Clifton planes are good and good value. But you won't find a link to it from the Clifton website. They are similarly reticent about their blades - there's a rather dry description here http://www.clico.co.uk/products/cli...ssories/spare-blades-for-clifton-bench-planes but it doesn't really get across the message that Clifton are different from other makers who have opted for a simpler (cheaper) method.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mike Hudson does a great job of promoting Clifton planes at many of the shows around the country

He always keeps the planes well honed and has various woods with difficult grain available so that you can see for yourself how well a sharp Clifton plane works. He's a mine of information on planing techniques and well worth chatting to.

However, as others have said, the internet is where people go for information these days and the Clico/Clifton website is very poor. They are doing themselves no favours in having a poor site. They really ought to improve it and ensure the right key words are there so that when you Google Clifton planes it comes out top of the list. Good websites are an essential investment these days.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and entitled to express it. However, if those criticising the Clico website really want to do something constructive, maybe they could get in direct contact with Clico and make some positive suggestions about improving their web presence? Sniping and grumbling on internet forums isn't going to help them much.

Also, as Paul Chapman does above, give them credit for what they do well - selling directly at shows. I'd also add that looking after customers is something they do well, too.

Manufacturing can be an uphill task in the UK, especially if your business uses a lot of energy. The costs of energy and employing people are high in this country, certainly higher than in the USA, and until the burden of taxation and regulation are relieved, it'll carry on being costly. That means less money available for such things as marketing. Frankly, I take my hat off to any company doing labour-intensive, energy-intensive manufacture and still making a profit. They have to battle hard, these days.

If we want British manufacturers to survive, we need to help them, not knock them.

 

[Peter Sefton]

For those who have not seen the (How it is made video) here is a link from my web site, sorry the photos aren’t as good as they could be it is work in progress and I am still looking for a school child to help me Jacob.

http://peterseftontoolshop.com/epages/e ... es/Clifton

Cheers Peter

 

[Fromey]

However, if those criticising the Clico website really want to do something constructive, maybe they could get in direct contact with Clico and make some positive suggestions about improving their web presence? Sniping and grumbling on internet forums isn't going to help them much.

Good point. Perhaps we could write an open letter from the UK Workshop forum (signed by those who agree to its message). I'm up to my eyeballs in exam marking at the moment so no time to rough out a draft. But, off the top of my head an outline could be;

We've been having a discussion about Clifton planes as a result of Axminster withdrawing its distribution.
We believe Clifton planes are premium products and that British industry needs as much support as possible.
We generally consider Internet-based advertising to be a significant contributor to commercial success (especially among international markets).
We generally believe your Internet presence to be poor; uncompetitive web page, few online product reviews, virtually no promotional videos, out of date product reviews.
Purely as a recommendation, we believe developing a stronger Internet presence would benefit your company.
Among many suggestions by forum members are; better designed web site, more detailed and larger images of products, youtube videos about products and supporting their use, campaign to get reviews of product on to Internet sources.
We hope you view these suggestions positively and can find the resources to make some/all of the changes.

We're not going to get agreement on all points and wording, but such a letter, even if not perfect, coming as a collective voice from informed and concerned customers and potential customers might stir them up a bit.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Anyone against it? Anyone want to flesh a letter out (don't have to use my outline)?

 

[mark w]

Just for the record, I think the Clifton planes are the nicest looking, when compared with LN or Veritas.

 

[mark w]

1 for good idea.

 

[Scouse]

If we want British manufacturers to survive, we need to help them, not knock them.

They are a business not a charity, as such they should be trying to help themselves, rather than relying on the good nature of consumers. I don't like being hard, but it's a hard world.

A few years ago I looked at purchasing planes for my business. I looked at Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Clifton. The Schwarz review was in the back of my mind (as was Clifton's silent response), but what moved me away from Clifton was the lack of....... I can't think of the word I'm looking for so I'll put it like this.

L/N had looked at planes and tried to make improvements, A2 steel, ductile iron etc and Veritas planes looked like they had been designed from the ground up. And Clifton? I'm not saying L/N are wildly innovative, but at least it looked like the company was operating in the 21st century. However good Cliftons are, L/N and V had made subtle changes to planes which at least looked like they had thought about what they were doing and worried about their public profile.

What put me off Clifton was the lack of thought toward the consumer. It was as if they wanted me to buy their planes simply because they were there and I was British. I tried them and they seemed ok, they still had the smell of British Leyland in 1973 about them; looking backwards, plodding on with a cup of tea and a flat cap, ignoring the boat loads of imports pulling the rug out from under them.

I spent a lot of money on L/N and a couple of Veritas, and have not looked back. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like to see Clifton fail as a company, but they do need a BIG dose of 2013 reality. It's a global economy, like it or not, if they are not equipped for the job, no amount of help and good will will save them.

 

[marcros]

i would be suprised if somebody on the forum, who is a web designed by profession, hasn't already emailed them with a link to the forum as evidence and a quote to sort it out.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Scouse

I know what you are saying, LN are exciting, Veritas are to exciting and Clifton are dull, the all work very well, its just you tend to but with your heart not your head.

Pete

 

[mark w]

I thought scousers were more likley to but(t) with their heads not their hearts.

 

[Racers]

Now then, now then, now then...


Pete

 

[marcros]

about 18 months back, i was having a conversation with a forum member about British tool making and selling, and how in my opinion they did not want to sell their tools. 2 examples that I gave were cliffton and ashley iles, both based on my experience of trying to get information directly from the manufacturing company from their website.

At the time, you still had to request and pay for a catalogue from AI because the products were not even on the website. I am happy to say that this has since changed.

A business with no decent web presence is missing out on a huge amount of business. Further on from that, having somebody promote the business through forums etc would be beneficial- much like Rob Lee pops up from time to time to say "this is what we are up to" etc.

we have seen the effects on Rutlands of not bothering with forum comments. contrast that with axi who jump on to sort out issues in the main part. Tom Lie Nielsen has even been known to comment occassionally on things IIRC.

 

[MIGNAL]

If we want British manufacturers to survive, we need to help them, not knock them.

They are a business not a charity, as such they should be trying to help themselves, rather than relying on the good nature of consumers. I don't like being hard, but it's a hard world.

A few years ago I looked at purchasing planes for my business. I looked at Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Clifton. The Schwarz review was in the back of my mind (as was Clifton's silent response), but what moved me away from Clifton was the lack of....... I can't think of the word I'm looking for so I'll put it like this.

L/N had looked at planes and tried to make improvements, A2 steel, ductile iron etc and Veritas planes looked like they had been designed from the ground up. And Clifton? I'm not saying L/N are wildly innovative, but at least it looked like the company was operating in the 21st century. However good Cliftons are, L/N and V had made subtle changes to planes which at least looked like they had thought about what they were doing and worried about their public profile.

What put me off Clifton was the lack of thought toward the consumer. It was as if they wanted me to buy their planes simply because they were there and I was British. I tried them and they seemed ok, they still had the smell of British Leyland in 1973 about them; looking backwards, plodding on with a cup of tea and a flat cap, ignoring the boat loads of imports pulling the rug out from under them.

I spent a lot of money on L/N and a couple of Veritas, and have not looked back. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like to see Clifton fail as a company, but they do need a BIG dose of 2013 reality. It's a global economy, like it or not, if they are not equipped for the job, no amount of help and good will will save them.

Nothing special about those attiributes. A2 has it's detractors. Clifton can claim 01 tool steel forged from a round bar, a Plane body casting that goes through a long annealing process, 2 piece cap iron. So what if they do look like a traditional Plane? LN look just as traditional, except that Clifton have the better aesthetics IMO. The only thing really outdated is the Clifton marketing and NOT the actual product.

 

[Scouse]

I thought scousers were more likley to but(t) with their heads not their hearts.

Alright, calm down, calm down! :lol:

The only thing really outdated is the Clifton marketing and NOT the actual product.

As I said, L/N are not wildly innovative in their product, but they do give the impression of a company that cares about it's product and customers, and has given it a bit of thought and promotes it accordingly. Clifton are good planes, as I said, but the company is lazy. It shouldn't be up to a few blokes on a forum to point out the inadequacies of a website to a manufacturer of seemingly national importance. As such I stand by what I said 'It's a global economy, like it or not, if they are not equipped for the job, no amount of help and good will will save them.'

 

[MIGNAL]

I don't think anyone here is disputing their poor marketing. Your earlier reply seemed to suggest that Clifton were somehow lacking in the actual product i.e. they hadn't thought about their Planes in the manner that LN and Veritas have. I don't believe that to be true for one moment, otherwise how does this happen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwDTH1ggAzM

 

[Scouse]

i.e. they hadn't thought about their Planes in the manner that LN and Veritas have.

That's definitely the case when compared with Veritas. I guess with Lie Nielsen it is a marketing thing to a point, they do emphasise the things that they see as an innovation in plane manufacture though.

I don't believe that to be true for one moment, otherwise how does this happen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwDTH1ggAzM

The same way as Deneb from Lie Nielsen (as Matthew highlights in the video) but without the Clifton; skill of the user?

 

[Jacob]

I don't think anyone here is disputing their poor marketing. Your earlier reply seemed to suggest that Clifton were somehow lacking in the actual product i.e. they hadn't thought about their Planes in the manner that LN and Veritas have. I don't believe that to be true for one moment, otherwise how does this happen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwDTH1ggAzM

Somewhat mystified by the video. What does it have to do with actual woodworking? Absolutely FA in my opinion. Might as well be shaving babies bottoms. It doesn't tell you much about Clifton planes either - I expect many planes sharpened like this one, in the manner of a laboratory microtome, would perform well.

A lot of this uber planing/sharpening stuff exists in a world of its own and has no relevance to most of us

PS Apparently, in Ultramicrotomy, diamond knives are the thing. It's only a matter of time!