Clifton plane sale!

[Vann]

...if you have any questions please feel free to ask, either on here, PM or email. If I don't know the answer i will do my best to find out for you!

Hi Richard. Does that also mean the end of the line for your Clico manufactured 'Victor' irons?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jimi43]

This development opens up the debate in general of the health of British industry as a whole and poses certain questions for me.

There is no doubting the customer care and honesty of Axminster as a supplier...indeed...just recently I have had to liaise with their customer care department and have to say that their assistance has been second to none.

So...given the reasons for dropping Clifton given by Richard in this recent statement, the most important of which was:

......and further analysis showed that the demand we were seeing for Clico/Clifton lines was not growing in line with the rest of the business, infact it was declining.

...one has to question why this is happening.

Sales decline is driven by definition by the customers. Price is clearly not the issue as LN and Veritas are similarly premium priced and yet Axminster are not dropping these ranges...indeed...from what I observed from their last visit...they are expanding these.

So what do customers perceive that drives them to buy foreign imports which must include high shipping margins in preference to home-grown product?

In the present economic climate, customers are wanting value for money and does the move in market purchasing trends towards quality products from the Americas mean that for the price level...they see LN and Veritas better value for money than Clifton? It would seem so.

Or is it a question of design? Modern versus traditional? I think possibly but then LN are also traditional in most aspects.

Is it marketing and viral penetration? Probably. Question how much Clifton promotes their product, I don't think their exposure is as much...so does this lack of promotion mean that they are not as obvious?

Have we not seen this before with the car and motorcycle industry?

I make this post to stimulate ideas. I am the last person to want the industry of Sheffield or Britain to go under and if I felt that buying only British products would solve this I would buy British but alas...I fear it wouldn't have any more impact than a grain of sand in a hurricane! It is the hurricane itself which needs to change direction if it is not to blow itself out and become a memory.

Jim

 

[Sawyer]

Paul and Paul, I too have queried with Axminster the disappointing dropping of Clifton and not even received a holding reply. Looks like we'll just have to support Clico via Axminster's competitors.

 

[Richard@Axminster]

Thank you all for your comments, I will be sure to pass all of your views on to the relevant person.

Sorry if you have not received a response to an email sent to us, if you are able to forward the email to me and I will make sure I respond to everyone individually. My email address is [email protected]

...if you have any questions please feel free to ask, either on here, PM or email. If I don't know the answer i will do my best to find out for you!

Hi Richard. Does that also mean the end of the line for your Clico manufactured 'Victor' irons?

Cheers, Vann.

Hello Vann,
Yes, Unfortunately we will no longer have the Victor blades.

Regards,

Richard.

 

[iNewbie]

Is it marketing and viral penetration? Probably. Question how much Clifton promotes their product, I don't think their exposure is as much...so does this lack of promotion mean that they are not as obvious?

The Clifton website is archaic. Their own online presence is cringeworthy.

At least with Veritas and LN (and most other companies) each tool has its own page. So at least you get something to look at - especially as these tools are not cheap. Do they really want to sell product/themselves?

The one pic they do have is a reverse image! - read the clifton name on the planes. *palmface*

Clifton

 

[bugbear]

If you got it, spend it, its just that some haven't and i'm getting a bit fed up with people just assuming everyone has bucket loads of dosh to lash out on tools etc for their pure enjoyment.

The majority of people tend to speak from their own circumstance and context, more or less. It's a natural tendency, and quite difficult to avoid.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Clifton need to follow Stanley, who have realised that they need to follow LN, LV, in producing modern planes.
Nothing wrong with trad planes of course, but there are tons of them about, second-hand and cheap. Not to mention Quansheng - just as good as Clifton if not better, but less attractive.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Clifton need to follow Stanley

You've made some daft comments in your time, Jacob, but that one's an all-time classic :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[jimi43]

Clifton need to follow Stanley

You've made some daft comments in your time, Jacob, but that one's an all-time classic :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

But be careful about copyright issues.....or they could end up at the Old Bailey!!

\/

Coat?

:mrgreen:

Jim

 

[AndyT]

Picking up on Jim's comments and those from iNewbie about the online buzz around Clifton planes compared to Lie Nielsen and Veritas...

I think that the nub of the problem is that a new woodworker, wanting to buy a decent plane, will probably be learning about them and looking for sources of supply, on-line. There are so many more woodworkers in the US than there are in the UK that even from over here it's US websites and blogs which will come up the most.

And what's the top result when I Google for "Clifton Planes"? - a blog post from Chris Schwarz written in 2004, republished in 2007, saying that they can be excellent but the quality control is inconsistent! So even if that is no longer true, and even if the customer care is excellent, that's the message that gets through.

And I know that Clifton have an excellent track record of attending shows - I've played with a lovely no 6 at Westonbirt and been very impressed - but they don't continually publish well-shot instructional videos, newsletters etc that the other makers of premium quality planes do, to build up brand awareness.

 

[Jacob]

Clifton need to follow Stanley

You've made some daft comments in your time, Jacob, but that one's an all-time classic :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Stanley are now making a new range of planes which seem to be improving and gaining in popularity. Maybe you missed all that?

 

[iNewbie]

And what's the top result when I Google for "Clifton Planes"? - a blog post from Chris Schwarz written in 2004, republished in 2007, saying that they can be excellent but the quality control is inconsistent! So even if that is no longer true, and even if the customer care is excellent, that's the message that gets through.

Exactly. Thats what I noticed when I first looked-up, Clifton's - and I couldn't find a follow-up to Schwarz post.

The other thing that made me hesitant towards them (as a newbie) was reading their FAQ page. They say the Y-lever "sometimes" breaks. I like their honesty, but its not something I want to read about for an expensive tool. Getting spares and good service is great, but I can't help but wonder if it will fail at the wrong moment...

FAQ - are spare parts available.

I still think they make great tools. I'm not getting a cross & garlic out just yet. :roll:

 

[woodbrains]

Stanley are now making a new range of planes which seem to be improving and gaining in popularity. Maybe you missed all that?

And they have been universally branded as utter rubbish (and made in Mexico apert from blades). There is even whispers of them being discontinued.

Mike.

 

[MIGNAL]

So woodbrains. Ever tried one of the new Stanleys?

 

[Jacob]

Me neither. But they seem to be approved of here stanley-62-low-angle-plane-t67037.html
and here post741827.html#p741827

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anTD4chmt6Q

 

[Dangermouse]

Stanley are now making a new range of planes which seem to be improving and gaining in popularity. Maybe you missed all that?

And they have been universally branded as utter rubbish (and made in Mexico apart from blades). There is even whispers of them being discontinued.

Mike.

Hi Mike
Yes the early premium Sweetheart Stanley planes have several issues with their design and quality. But fair does to Stanley, they took all the feedback and fixed the problems and now these planes are 90% as good as LN. Even Christopher Schwarz has said so in his blog.

( The logical question at this point is where this tool, at $180, is compared
to its competitors. I think it’s still a notch below the Lie-Nielsen
($245) and Veritas ($220) versions, though only for aesthetic reasons.
The brass knobs aren’t as finished. The casting is a little rougher –
stuff like that.
With a couple changes, Stanley has made a fully
functional premium tool. Now it will be interesting to see if the
company continues to improve the line. )

As per my review, I was really amazed on what a true "premium" plane I had. I Purchased a Stanley no 62 LA jack for 86.00 including postage and thought it would "ok", turned out to be stunner!
But like Clifton, Stanley do not seem to publicize this achievement at all. Leaving it to a few blogs and hard to find new reviews. When doing some research before buying I couldn't find hardly any up to date reviews, except Christopher Schwarz's and a couple of others. bit of a British Leyland syndrome, If you have a product with problems, then fix it and don't tell anyone, you still get your products laughed at.
So you have a choice, Stanley Premium, Clifton, LN, Veritas, with Stanley's being about 80% cheaper and 90% as good.

 

[mark w]

I wonder if anyone else has noticed a slight slip in the quality of Lie nielsen planes, I was going to buy one of their new low angle jack rebate planes, I took a look at one at last years Westonbirt show at the Classic Handtools stand, the qaulity of the mouth opening was quite poor, not very well machined, I didn`t bother.
I bought a LN low angle 71/2 from Axminster, the brass cap iron clamped down on the blade just over the bevel making it impossible to retract the blade without loosening the cap iron (very fiddly) the back of the mouth opening was poorly machined on this plane as well, I took it back and bought the LN No 7, this is a lovely plane but again the mouth was poorly machined I had to use a file on it!
As for Clifton planes, I attend a furniture making course at Bridgwater college and see a good number of planes by different makers (bought by my fellow students), the most consistent in quality is Veritas, the most inconsistent is Clifton, but their worst is still better than an Eastern import. Quangsheng and other Eastern imports seem to vary where you buy them from, Quangsheng are good from Workshop Heaven, not as good from Rutlands, I would not touch any of the own brand planes from Axminster, they have proved to be of low quality.

 

[No skills]

If I had money to go buy a new expensive plane Clifton wouldnt be the first brand to spring to mind, I think mainly because the only internet feedback that has stuck in the dark dark recesses of my mind arent that positive. Brand awareness for a 'premium' product is very important - you may make the best product in the world but if nobody knows or you get a bad rep for some reason then you pretty much bolloxed.

 

[woodbrains]

So woodbrains. Ever tried one of the new Stanleys?

Did a while ago. The block planes are too heavy and the adjuster was awful. The alloy cap was a pain and didn't look like it would last 5 minutes (around the screw slot area). The smoother had awful handles and I didn't like the adjustable mouth, which left sharp protrusions at the front so there was a danger of scarring the work at the critical 'finishing off' stage.. There were other niggles. The shoulder planes look to be irredeemable. The only reason the prices are lower than other premium planes, is that they are cast in Mexico. If Stanley have ironed out the QC problems, then well done to them for listening, at least. But there are inherently bad design issues. They are not cheap enough to live with, and time spent fettling could be spent fettling a vintage Stanley Record etc. which were probably better made in the first place and spend the extra on some superb aftermarket blades. You will end up with a better plane. Admittedly I did not try the LA jack and was in the market for the same a couple of years back. Did not think it worth trying due to the issues of the others and got a used Veritas instead. This was perfect in every repect and ready to go. This is what you should expect from a premium tool. Or fettling an oldie but goodie. The middle ground of, 'reasonable expensive but needing work to get going' seems to be a funny market to aim for and not something anyone in their right mind should advise Clifton of anyone else to target.

The only problem Clifton have is that Britain is too small a market and Americans are patriotic. Anyone there sepending a large amount on a premium tool will almost without question, buy LN or Veritas. This means that Clifton will never have the money for R and D and come up with new innovations like Veritas. We seem to still have time for the colonies, so we buy LN and LV almost as if it were supporting our industry. Added to the fact that the N American makers have more unusual planes, we buy some and then stay brand loyal, pushing Clifton out again. I fear Clifton do not have much of a future, and this makes me sad. Getting them to out source manufacturing, or lessening quality will not help.

Mike.

 

[MIGNAL]

double post.