City Link in liquidation

[Teepeg]

A couple of good lads i know are shocked over this, they had no idea ..

 

[RogerS]

I refer the Honourable Gentleman to rule 6a :wink:

Links to leftie or right wing papers that pontificate have no place here IMO.

I appreciate the rules but surely rule 2, in particular the first line of it should be adhered to as well, else the rules are moot.

Well, I went back to see exactly what I wrote in the first post that you took exception with. To be honest, I think you are over-reacting a little. Possibly the first sentence might have touched on being sarcastic but hardly enough to warrant the term 'backbiting'.

When you've been on the forum a bit longer you will soon realise that Mr Butler likes nothing more than to trollpost and derail a thread. So far in this thread, he has trollposted three times and after a while it starts to get tedious. Reporting his posts is fruitless as you will discover that there is one set of forum rules for him and then the normal set of rules for the rest of us.

 

[Jacob]

Even the Mail thinks it stinks

A very large number of workers are on dubious terms of self employment and have to buy their own vans etc with very little in the way of secure contracts. These are the people likely to suffer most.

 

[shed9]

Well, I went back to see exactly what I wrote in the first post that you took exception with. To be honest, I think you are over-reacting a little. Possibly the first sentence might have touched on being sarcastic but hardly enough to warrant the term 'backbiting'.

When you've been on the forum a bit longer you will soon realise that Mr Butler likes nothing more than to trollpost and derail a thread. So far in this thread, he has trollposted three times and after a while it starts to get tedious. Reporting his posts is fruitless as you will discover that there is one set of forum rules for him and then the normal set of rules for the rest of us.

Asking if there is any merit to the unnecessary comments is not over reacting, just a question of which I don’t think has been answered. You first stated (albeit on another thread) that you wanted to protect people from his unsafe comments on working practice, now you want to protect them from his politics because he contravenes the rules, rules you now point out he doesn't seem to need to follow?

I've followed UKW for some time and only joined as and when it suited me. There is some good advice on here and generally a good bunch of people from all walks of life. If however you can't get on or disagree with someone surely the better option would be to keep it civil even the if the other party doesn't. We are all adults on here, we can all work it out when someone is trolling or trying to wind up others, you don't need to tell us or point it out every time - this just feeds it.

Don't get me wrong RogerS, I don't know you other than your posts but would like to think that if we met in the real world the conversation would be a positive one on woodworking. I'm not knocking you or trying to offend in any shape or form, however I think your valued input to UKW is being slightly diluted by your policing of Jacob.

 

[Gary]

Even the Mail thinks it stinks

A very large number of workers are on dubious terms of self employment and have to buy their own vans etc with very little in the way of secure contracts. These are the people likely to suffer most.

I don't think they'll suffer any more or less than the average employee there. The only ones who will be ok are those who've lined their pockets while they allowed the failing business model to continue.

 

[mseries]

Even the Mail thinks it stinks

A very large number of workers are on dubious terms of self employment and have to buy their own vans etc with very little in the way of secure contracts. These are the people likely to suffer most.

I don't think they'll suffer any more or less than the average employee there. The only ones who will be ok are those who've lined their pockets while they allowed the failing business model to continue.

Yes. Employees are towards the end of the list to be paid what they are owed when their employer goes into administration. From my own experience, it's likely that the Administrator can't recover enough money to be able to pay the employees. Maybe those self employed people can't make the same claims from National Insurance that ex-employees can.

 

[DiscoStu]

HMRC is always first in line for any monies owed.

 

[Stu_2]

I don't think HMRC now come above employees on PAYE. That's not the case for contractors, though.

I recently had to deal with recovering assets from a company in administration, and KPMG were explaining things have changed a bit now.

Poor old contractors are just another creditor, so they'll struggle to recover anything in the pound.

 

[RogerS]

I don't think anyone has made any money as they were losing £4 million a month and if they hadn't pulled the plug then they would have been trading insolvent

 

[RogerS]

Shed9 you make a fair point.

 

[doctor Bob]

When you've been on the forum a bit longer you will soon realise that Mr Butler and I like nothing more than to trollpost and derail a thread and bicker with one another and promise to block each other and insult each other and purposefully hunt out each others posts so we can post the exact opposite, and drag a dead thread on for another couple of weeks.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Woodmonkey]

When you've been on the forum a bit longer you will soon realise that Mr Butler and I like nothing more than to trollpost and derail a thread and bicker with one another and promise to block each other and insult each other and purposefully hunt out each others posts so we can post the exact opposite, and drag a dead thread on for another couple of weeks.

I couldn't agree more.

:lol: =D>

 

[RogerS]

When you've been on the forum a bit longer you will soon realise that Mr Butler and I like nothing more than to trollpost and derail a thread and bicker with one another and promise to block each other and insult each other and purposefully hunt out each others posts so we can post the exact opposite, and drag a dead thread on for another couple of weeks.

I couldn't agree more.

LOL ...very creative, Bob !! =D>

 

[Jacob]

Mr Butler? Is it like Rumpelstiltskin - you get my name right and I fly out of the window on a ladle? Or stamp myself into the ground (depends which version).

 

[Higon]

Even the Mail thinks it stinks

A very large number of workers are on dubious terms of self employment and have to buy their own vans etc with very little in the way of secure contracts. These are the people likely to suffer most.

I don't think they'll suffer any more or less than the average employee there. The only ones who will be ok are those who've lined their pockets while they allowed the failing business model to continue.

it would appear, https://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.citylink.com the organisational failings were to be found elsewhere.

 

[acewoodturner]

I have used City Link for over 10 years and have an account with them. I only used to send about 6 parcels or so a year with them but never had a problem with them. I have a business workshop and the big unit opposite me have deliveries and pickups from all the major couriers every day. I haver never had a parcel go missing yet. Their local depot is only a mile away so anything that I needed to send I used to drop off with them. Looks like I am one of the few who will miss them. Recently APC opened a depot about 100 yards away so that looks like who will be getting my business from now on.
Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about APC?

Mike

 

[Gary]

Even the Mail thinks it stinks

A very large number of workers are on dubious terms of self employment and have to buy their own vans etc with very little in the way of secure contracts. These are the people likely to suffer most.

I don't think they'll suffer any more or less than the average employee there. The only ones who will be ok are those who've lined their pockets while they allowed the failing business model to continue.

it would appear, https://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.citylink.com the organisational failings were to be found elsewhere.

Well they weren't without paid management while the operated like a shower of *****.

 

[Eric The Viking]

My experience with CityLink was horrible. In the late 1990s it got so bad I even contacted the marketing manager of a large company I used to buy from, asking her to offer customers a choice. I was told that was impossible, and I largely stopped doing business with them.

I don't know why it had the corporate culture it had, but I'm not at all surprised it's gone. Obviously I feel sad for the staff (been made redundant myself, at Christmas, too), but they bear responsibility too:

I've wasted hours hanging around their Bristol depot waiting for rude and bored staff to do their jobs badly and slowly find deliveries I should have had, but didn't. I've had flat lies told about deliveries ("There was nobody in."). I've had fragile items broken, and so on.

For much of this, you cannot blame management, except insofar as they didn't sack the people directly responsible.

In my view the corporate culture is jointly the responsibility of management AND workforce. Citylink's big mistake was that it thought the people paying it were its crucial customers - they weren't.

The people receiving deliveries were far more important, as they ultimately controlled its fate.

Bluntly, I'm surprised it's lasted this long. There was a good interview on this morning's Today programme with the CEO of the investment company who tried, unsuccessfully, to bail Citylink out and turn the business around.

The interviewer tried very hard to get mud to stick along the lines of 'ruthless capitalist pig', but the answers given were simple honest and open. They'd tried for a long time to obtain more finance, but none was found; he'd lost several million personally; the process had to happen as it did, as to knowingly continue trading would have been a criminal offence. It's no doubt on iPlayer - worth a listen.

It wasn't actually said, but 'too little too late' seems to have been why the rescue failed. Even though I've been on the receiving end in the past, I found myself more in sympathy with the investors than the company.

I'm sure good people have lost their jobs through this - it's sad but inevitable.

But the writing was on the wall years ago.

 

[DiscoStu]

I agree with that. I do find it incredibly frustrating when people imply that senior management want these things to happen. I don't know any directors of businesses who would be happy for them to fail. They loose out far more from a failing business than a successful one. I also don't know of any senior staff who don't care about their employees. Directors realise that staff need to be happy to be motivated and they need to be motivated to be productive. It's not rocket science. A lot of employees only see motivation in their salary and they don't tend to see income vs expenditure so they don't see the hard decisions that often have to be taken for the business as a whole.

 

[Baldhead]

I also don't know of any senior staff who don't care about their employees. Directors realise that staff need to be happy to be motivated and they need to be motivated to be productive. It's not rocket science.

That made me laugh, you obviously didn't know the MD or the only director of the company I worked for in my first job.

Baldhead