Coyote
Established Member
Bite his hand off Seb!
Chipped edges on new planes and do new planes need sharpening before use?
- Thread starter silz
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Bite his hand off Seb!
Cabinetman
Established Member
That has to be the offer of the year! As Coyote said bite his hand off, ha ha. I have planed all sorts of rubbish in my time with very bog standard blades and I have never ever ever ever chipped a blade like that. ( in fact I have never ever chipped a plane blade) I am confident that they have been hardened incorrectly. See what Mr Temple says but I think they ought to go back. Ian
Trevanion
Greatest Of All Time
That looks like Norweigan Spruce (Also known as Whitewood in the trade) to me, which is an absolute nightmare to work with hand tools since as you've found out, it's a very knotty material as well just being an all-round rubbish timber. The knots are probably hard enough to take chips out of the iron if you hit them with enough gusto and you've got an incredibly fine edge.
If you get some Scots Pine (a commonly available Redwood) like Mike has shown on his projects, you'll see and feel a massive difference. Whitewoods such as spruce are barely good enough for really rough construction purposes, hacked up, and nailed together sorta stuff let alone anything pretty.
You're going to feel dogpiled by all the comments thus far, but they've got the best intentions. Get some decent timber and the plane will glide across it and make wonderful shavings.
If you get some Scots Pine (a commonly available Redwood) like Mike has shown on his projects, you'll see and feel a massive difference. Whitewoods such as spruce are barely good enough for really rough construction purposes, hacked up, and nailed together sorta stuff let alone anything pretty.
You're going to feel dogpiled by all the comments thus far, but they've got the best intentions. Get some decent timber and the plane will glide across it and make wonderful shavings.
You're getting lots of advice, but not all directly addressing your immediate problem!
If the blades you have are A2 steel, as I suspect, then your experience isn't unique. Chipping of new edges with A2 is something that has been complained about on various forums for some time. There is much conjecture as to cause, but there seems to be universal agreement on the cure - grind a mm or so off the blade & all's well. I've bought many blades from what is probably the same factory your blades were made in, to use in the planes I make, & experienced the fracturing edge problem a couple of times. The 'cure' worked for me; the blades were at least as good as anyone else's A2 blades after removing probably less than a mm (& I work with woods that are a severe test for any edge!)
[I know, you shouldn't have to spend an extra 10 or 15 minutes regrinding & honing a brand new blade (& it'll take a heck of a lot longer than that if you do it manually!), but it could be a far simpler & quicker solution to your problem than going through the hassles of returning them. You could be up & planing in far less time than it would take me to drive to the P.O.]
Bear in mind that A2 steel is a chippy beast & does need a steeper bevel than old style tools steels as fitted to the planes of yore, if you want your edges to last a decent time between sharpenings. Most people recommend a minimum working angle of 30 degrees, & quite a few say to take the final bevel to 35 deg. That still leaves you with 10 deg of clearance on a standard pitch, bevel-down plane, which is adequate, but gives you a less acute edge with more penetration resistance (i.e., more work to push through the wood).
In your part of the world, where you are likely working with woods that are far less recalcitrant than I regularly tackle, I reckon you'd do better sticking with O1 steels where you can, such as the blades sold by Ray Iles (no affiliations - Veritas & Hock O1 blades are excellent too!). O1 is a wonderfully forgiving steel that's dead easy to put a fine edge on, yet holds it very well - it's the best compromise in my view, for working 'sensible' woods. The powder-metallurgy blades have a place in my world, too, but they cost a lot more and are a bit more difficult to sharpen to the standard I like...
Cheers,
If the blades you have are A2 steel, as I suspect, then your experience isn't unique. Chipping of new edges with A2 is something that has been complained about on various forums for some time. There is much conjecture as to cause, but there seems to be universal agreement on the cure - grind a mm or so off the blade & all's well. I've bought many blades from what is probably the same factory your blades were made in, to use in the planes I make, & experienced the fracturing edge problem a couple of times. The 'cure' worked for me; the blades were at least as good as anyone else's A2 blades after removing probably less than a mm (& I work with woods that are a severe test for any edge!)
[I know, you shouldn't have to spend an extra 10 or 15 minutes regrinding & honing a brand new blade (& it'll take a heck of a lot longer than that if you do it manually!), but it could be a far simpler & quicker solution to your problem than going through the hassles of returning them. You could be up & planing in far less time than it would take me to drive to the P.O.]
Bear in mind that A2 steel is a chippy beast & does need a steeper bevel than old style tools steels as fitted to the planes of yore, if you want your edges to last a decent time between sharpenings. Most people recommend a minimum working angle of 30 degrees, & quite a few say to take the final bevel to 35 deg. That still leaves you with 10 deg of clearance on a standard pitch, bevel-down plane, which is adequate, but gives you a less acute edge with more penetration resistance (i.e., more work to push through the wood).
In your part of the world, where you are likely working with woods that are far less recalcitrant than I regularly tackle, I reckon you'd do better sticking with O1 steels where you can, such as the blades sold by Ray Iles (no affiliations - Veritas & Hock O1 blades are excellent too!). O1 is a wonderfully forgiving steel that's dead easy to put a fine edge on, yet holds it very well - it's the best compromise in my view, for working 'sensible' woods. The powder-metallurgy blades have a place in my world, too, but they cost a lot more and are a bit more difficult to sharpen to the standard I like...
Cheers,
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
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The Woodrivers are indeed T10, some websites refer to them as A2. But I agree with your assessment in relation to A2 and although LN are excellent planes I don't think they are the solution to this problem.
In that case, perhaps there is a problem with the hardening & tempering of those particular blades. While I can imagine the odd dud blade slipping through QC, it seems like a big coincidence that you would get a couple of different planes at te one time, both bearing faulty blades. (?)
Given the OP's experience, I strongly suspect there is a problem with the sharpening technique rather than the blades. The proposed visit with an experienced hand should at least reveal where the problem lies....
Cheers,
MikeG.
Established Member
It's really great to see the offers of help from members of the forum, I'm sure you can get all the assistance you need to solve this problem.
I own several Wood River planes that I have purchased over the years from Peter at the Wood Workers Workshop and have found them excellent. A slight bit of prep needed to the blade but not much at all. (I use a diamond plate and a Shapton Glass stone).
I have spent a few £££ with Peter and the service has aways been nothing short of excellent. I have had to make returns (Incra Router table top that was poorly finished) also had Items with cosmetic imperfections that I was given a discount on. My go to company for quality tools.
I'm sure if you allow them they will treat you well.
I own several Wood River planes that I have purchased over the years from Peter at the Wood Workers Workshop and have found them excellent. A slight bit of prep needed to the blade but not much at all. (I use a diamond plate and a Shapton Glass stone).
I have spent a few £££ with Peter and the service has aways been nothing short of excellent. I have had to make returns (Incra Router table top that was poorly finished) also had Items with cosmetic imperfections that I was given a discount on. My go to company for quality tools.
I'm sure if you allow them they will treat you well.
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Please remove this if it's deemed not constructive.
I'm amazed by the fulsome and generous response that this forum is providing to somebody who's acting (in my opinion) very unreasonably.
It looks to me like crap wood is getting tearout around a particularly knotty area. Those same knots (which are incredibly hard) are probably nicking a very fine edge, or maybe the edge isn't prepared properly from honing at all. I ran into the exact same situation for the first time earlier this year. My solution was to go online, read about what was happening, and practise more with the tools I had. Eventually I got a perfect finish (for my requirements) on some cheap construction timber from yes... B&Q and I ended up with a nice workbench out of it.
The lessons I learnt from that process have helped me work with some much nicer tools and much nicer woods since then and it's really damn satisfying.
What I didn't do, was start badmouthing expensive tools and suppliers on a public forum.
I'm amazed by the fulsome and generous response that this forum is providing to somebody who's acting (in my opinion) very unreasonably.
It looks to me like crap wood is getting tearout around a particularly knotty area. Those same knots (which are incredibly hard) are probably nicking a very fine edge, or maybe the edge isn't prepared properly from honing at all. I ran into the exact same situation for the first time earlier this year. My solution was to go online, read about what was happening, and practise more with the tools I had. Eventually I got a perfect finish (for my requirements) on some cheap construction timber from yes... B&Q and I ended up with a nice workbench out of it.
The lessons I learnt from that process have helped me work with some much nicer tools and much nicer woods since then and it's really damn satisfying.
What I didn't do, was start badmouthing expensive tools and suppliers on a public forum.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Hello
Firstly you need a bench to plane on.
Some solid trestles which may need some sandbags or whathaveyou.
A long hefty beam of timber that won't bend under pressure or
a composite door from a skip might be found locally.
Butt it against the wall to stop it moving.
Something like this might be a start
Do you have any kind straight edge of some description?
The longer the better, not talking about any short thing or the engineering kind.
You must have been trying to plane into a dip, or a board that was flexing
so you had to advance the iron way too much, which exerted that much force on the iron to literally snap the edge off like a carrot.
If you have something that is flat, then that will teach you to only plane the high spots.
You could rub a graphite stick or easier again, a black crayon on a said straight edge to mark those high spots out on the work, so you can have as little cutter projection as possible and never plane fresh air again.
Tom
Firstly you need a bench to plane on.
Some solid trestles which may need some sandbags or whathaveyou.
A long hefty beam of timber that won't bend under pressure or
a composite door from a skip might be found locally.
Butt it against the wall to stop it moving.
Something like this might be a start
Do you have any kind straight edge of some description?
The longer the better, not talking about any short thing or the engineering kind.
You must have been trying to plane into a dip, or a board that was flexing
so you had to advance the iron way too much, which exerted that much force on the iron to literally snap the edge off like a carrot.
If you have something that is flat, then that will teach you to only plane the high spots.
You could rub a graphite stick or easier again, a black crayon on a said straight edge to mark those high spots out on the work, so you can have as little cutter projection as possible and never plane fresh air again.
Tom
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
https://paulsellers.com/2017/02/rag-can-oiler/
Works perfectly.
Works perfectly.
MikeG.
Established Member
So does a quick rub from an old candle, without quite so much work involved in the first place.
thetyreman
Established Member
the knots in spruce are the hardest knots you'll find, get some unsorted redwood pine and you'll find it's a different animal to plane, I've also had spruce chip blades, the woodriver planes from everything I've seen look really good and I really don't think its your plane in this case, give it a good sharpen and try again with some nicer wood, it's worth mentioning that having the cap iron closer to the edge can help minimise tear out as well.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
I'd have to go somewhere and buy a candle, which would be lost by the next day, and a rub from a candle doesn't keep corrosion off when you put the tool away. (Humidy here is often in the high 90's)
transatlantic
Boom!
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
snaffle one of your missus's tealights Phil
MikeG.
Established Member
I am also heartened at the gold nugget standard of advice being given in this thread.
The generosity of some going well beyond any call of duty, but demonstrating a
very human side to t'web.
I'm reading this with avid interest, picking up some great tips along the way.
Now pondering if I should regrind my tools to 30° intead of 25°.
I have also become a convert to the Rag in a Can Oiler, courtesy of Mr Sellers, and it's
true; it works really well. Wouldn't be without it now.
ATB,
Daniel
The generosity of some going well beyond any call of duty, but demonstrating a
very human side to t'web.
I'm reading this with avid interest, picking up some great tips along the way.
Now pondering if I should regrind my tools to 30° intead of 25°.
I have also become a convert to the Rag in a Can Oiler, courtesy of Mr Sellers, and it's
true; it works really well. Wouldn't be without it now.
ATB,
Daniel
