Buying from Europe

[Terry - Somerset]

Brexit has happened - whether the decision was rational or not is now academic. A purely personal view - it was foolish - the benefits illusory and the risks very evident.

Implementation was impacted by the pandemic. Progress on the transition with Europe, wider international scene, and even domestic issues inevitably slowed materially.

Brexit date was 31st January 2020 - over 4 years ago. The pandemic broke in March/April 2020 and impacted any negotiations for at least a year until vaccines were rolled out and governments able to re-focus in more normal conditions on other issues.

We were sold the illusion that Brexit would deliver material benefits almost without delay - clearly unrealistic. Few/no explicit measures were agreed to evidence success over any timescale - eg: UK economic performance, value of new trade deals to be signed, real sovereignty benefits etc.

We have now had at least two, and arguably up to three years to resolve transition issues. This has evidently not been wholly successful.

I would be pleased to be corrected by those who supported Brexit with a list of solid benefits now evident, and the plan over the next few years to evidence with hindsight its success rather than abject failure.

 

[stuart little]

In my old job trying to get prototype car parts into the UK was a nightmare, the reason was that customs were so inconsistent, paperwork that had been excepted for one batch would often get rejected for a second with little explanation. I had a similar issue last week trying to buy spares for a spin dryer. Available from Portugal price quoted in pounds £26 but they would not sell to the UK even at my risk if parts rejected. Found a supplier in this country at £67 reason "we import them from Europe, it's a nightmare" - off to my shed for muttering practice.

I never understood why we were ever allowed to vote on the subject, it was a decision that required far more understanding of economics and politics than I have and that is probably true for most people on this forum and I'm making the assumption that people on here probably have intelligence and experience a bit over average.

I had similar problems from Spain. A model wooden ship kit producer tried twice to send me FOC replacement parts, both times rejected by customs. I 'won' in the end by getting them to send the parts to relatives in France!

 

[stuart little]

Brexit has happened - whether the decision was rational or not is now academic. A purely personal view - it was foolish - the benefits illusory and the risks very evident.

Implementation was impacted by the pandemic. Progress on the transition with Europe, wider international scene, and even domestic issues inevitably slowed materially.

Brexit date was 31st January 2020 - over 4 years ago. The pandemic broke in March/April 2020 and impacted any negotiations for at least a year until vaccines were rolled out and governments able to re-focus in more normal conditions on other issues.

We were sold the illusion that Brexit would deliver material benefits almost without delay - clearly unrealistic. Few/no explicit measures were agreed to evidence success over any timescale - eg: UK economic performance, value of new trade deals to be signed, real sovereignty benefits etc.

We have now had at least two, and arguably up to three years to resolve transition issues. This has evidently not been wholly successful.

I would be pleased to be corrected by those who supported Brexit with a list of solid benefits now evident, and the plan over the next few years to evidence with hindsight its success rather than abject failure.

I was a right old cock-up as NO ONE could foresee the future chaos, it was a case of shutting one's eyes & stabbing a pen on the ballot form, where it lands place X (well it was for me!)

 

[AES]

jcassidy wrote, QUOTE: The EU was, and is, a trade block, to increase commercial ties between states, removing barriers to the free movement of goods and people. UNQUOTE:

I am not going to join in the debate about whether or not Brexit was "a good thing". Today however, I think that few would rationally dispute that overall it's turned out to be "bad"! (And that NOT just because a few "woodworkers/hobbyists" can't easily buy stuff from "over there" any more).

However, factually jcassidy, in the above quote you are completely wrong Sir.

For a long long time before the UK Brexit referendum, the EU was turning itself into a "completely new pan-European state" (as well as an "economic/trading block"). AND various members of the EU parliament - and other European politicians too - said loud and long that the aim was - and still is - to develop forwards from "just" a trading block into a "single pan-European state".

Whether or not that is a good or a bad idea is a wholly different debate, but to state that the EU is "a trade block ....... etc, etc," as you have above is wholly and absolutely wrong.

 

[pip1954]

I think the majority got what they wanted so all this bickering is just hot air and a waste of time, what I would like to know is how the hell Cameron got a knighthood and how he got his nose back in our politics,he said whatever the outcome he would stay and sort it out .but instead he had a big sulk and legged it.

 

[AES]

I think the majority got what they wanted so all this bickering is just hot air and a waste of time, what I would like to know is how the hell Cameron got a knighthood and how he got his nose back in our politics,he said whatever the outcome he would stay and sort it out .but instead he had a big sulk and legged it.

Yeah. I for one was gobsmacked when on a TV news programme over here DC was labelled as "British Foreign Minister".

I first thought that either Swiss TV had got it wrong, or that they were showing an old clip (IIRC he was a Foreign Minister in some govt way back when, wasn't he)?

But agree entirely agree, how come he's the UK Foreign Minister TODAY? I THINK I'm right in saying that he's not even an MP today is he?

(To be clear I'm now talking about just before Sunak's announcement of a GE and subsequent dissolution of parliament).

 

[Adam W.]

Brexit was a good thing for me, as it forced me to ask if I could get adopted by the Danish.
Brexit was a bad thing for me because it means that most of my qualifications, including all my recent NVQ's and my PG Dip are not recognised any more by the Danish.

Like most things in this life, there are pros and there are cons.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Cameron is a Lord not a Sir.

He is not an MP

He cannot address the House of Commons - he is represented by more junior ministers.

He is not the first ministerial appointment of a Lord - others include Lord Adonis, Lord Mandelson.

Personally I initially regarded DC as a decent PM and able to do a credible job as Foreign Secretary.

One major flaw - agreeing to a referendum on the EU + total complacency as to the outcome

 

[the great waldo]

I sympathise Fitzroy. I'm not in UK, but Switzerland, also a non-EU country.

I found that whereas in the past Dictum would always accept credit cards, now they ONLY accept cards which have the account holder at an address in Germany! So for the parts I needed from them I had to pay in advance by Pro-Forma Invoice with a transfer from my bank to theirs BEFORE they would ship the goods. Higher costs to me than credit card. So that part is apparently nothing to do with EU/non-EU countries.

However, re VAT: In the above transaction, Dictum did NOT charge me any German VAT (which BTW is much higher than Swiss VAT). BUT on arrival in Switzerland I DID have to pay Swiss VAT on the whole value of the transaction (i.e. including Dictum's packing and shipping charges); PLUS Swiss Import Duty, also calculated on the total value of the transaction, NOT just the value of the actual spare parts.

I have now come to the conclusion that unless Dictum really are the ONLY source of what I want, I don't use them any more.

A pity really, because they WERE, IME, an excellent company to deal with in the past. There seems to have been a change of management/philosophy in that particular company, and that, plus Brexit, has changed the picture with Dictum significantly.

More generally, my own experience with buying stuff from both non-EU countries (e.g. USA) and from EU countries (e.g. UK) varies significantly. With some, it's an outright NO. Others will help, but usually only after jumping through several admin hoops.

I did NOT have a vote in the UK Brexit referendum (I've been a non-UK resident for too long) so "don't blame me mate"!

I'm in Austria and they accepted my card with an Austrian address !!?? I try and avoid like the plague buying from the UK as the duty and vat make it unworkable (royal mail is pretty crappy too)
Cheers
Andrew

 

[AES]

I'm in Austria and they accepted my card with an Austrian address !!?? I try and avoid like the plague buying from the UK as the duty and vat make it unworkable (royal mail is pretty crappy too)
Cheers
Andrew

Good to know, thanks. I am simply repeating what I was told when I tried to place a cc order with them earlier this year/late last, value was ca. €450. Perhaps they think Oe is (still) part of Germany (sorry!) whereas CH never was!

Edit for P.S. "Well only parts of CH anyway"!

 

[AES]

Cameron is a Lord not a Sir.

He is not an MP

He cannot address the House of Commons - he is represented by more junior ministers.

He is not the first ministerial appointment of a Lord - others include Lord Adonis, Lord Mandelson.

Personally I initially regarded DC as a decent PM and able to do a credible job as Foreign Secretary.

One major flaw - agreeing to a referendum on the EU + total complacency as to the outcome

OK Terry

 

[John Brown]

I was a right old cock-up as NO ONE could foresee the future chaos, it was a case of shutting one's eyes & stabbing a pen on the ballot form, where it lands place X (well it was for me!)

Wow! Nobody forced you to vote, Stuart...

 

[jcassidy]

I have a benefit! SWMBO smokes and I recently, on a trip to Birmingham, managed to buy 1,200 cigerattes in duty free for roughly €5 a packet. Even including Ryanair flights and food, that's enough of a bargain they it'll become a regular thing!!

The only downside was once my business was done, I had to hang out in Birmingham for the day, and it's a very boring city, especially with the main museum closed since 2021...

 

[llywmog]

But we got £350mil per week for the NHS!

On a non political note, it does seem hard to find any simple info on what EU sellers should do to sell to the UK. I've been looking at buying a piece of equipment from Dictum in Germany, and whilst they offer free UK postage I can't workout if I need to pay with VAT on the site, or pay VAT during import, or what the import duty will be, etc etc. The item is not sold in the UK and it is really frustrating me.

I purchased a 200mm planer a couple of years ago. When I went to check-out and specified UK delivery the price was reduced (removal of German VAT). I then had to pay UK VAT and custom fees at my end. Didn't work out that much more than the original website price if I remember correctly. I certainly wasn't annoyed by the price, and knew what they were going to be in advance too.

 

[Fitzroy]

I purchased a 200mm planer a couple of years ago. When I went to check-out and specified UK delivery the price was reduced (removal of German VAT). I then had to pay UK VAT and custom fees at my end. Didn't work out that much more than the original website price if I remember correctly. I certainly wasn't annoyed by the price, and knew what they were going to be in advance too.

Thank you so much, that’s super helpful! Off to make my order.

 

[cmoops2]

On 5 June 1975 I voted to become part of the European Economic Community (EEC) and, on 23 June 2016 I voted to leave an organisation that was not only on the way to becoming 'Fortress Europe' but was also dictating how we in the UK should lead our lives.

In July 1957 (some 4 months after its foundation by France, Italy, West Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg) the EEC came into being. Churchill said: "We genuinely wish to join a European free trade area". He also warned "If, on the other hand the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the original 6 nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all - worse for them as well as us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it - and not only in the economic field"

In the years since June 1975, the ability for the UK to determine its future was gradually moved from our shores to Brussels and Strasbourg. The transition from being a member of the 'Common Market' to being governed by a long screwdriver whose handle lived in Brussels was further consolidated and imposed on this nation via non-consultative events such as the Maastricht Treaty in 92/93 (but, due to a resolve unseen until this point, did not suck the Great Britain & NI into the Euro).

In the immediate aftermath of the Brexit implementation date, world attention was focussed on dealing with COVID. Currently, large elements of continental Europe have their eyes firmly fixed on Ukraine. For these reasons, the effort that should have been applied to 'getting Brexit done' was left to 650 self-centred individuals (overseen by some 783 peers) and became probably the best example in UK history of the machinery of goverment putting more effort into making the process as difficult as possible thereby collectively failing to implement the will of the people. Whether Cameron should have thought a bit more about 'how' the Referendum was framed is a moot point and will be debated until the cows come home.

For the record, I am NOT a European, I am a UK citizen. I voted 'leave' simply because I live, and want to continue to live in a Soveriegn Nation (which is also an island). I listen to friends whose children have been convinced by the education system that they are European - if they really do believe that, why aren't they off in their droves to fight in support of Ukraine ?

 

[cmoops2]

Having read my rant on 'things Europe', I do feel somewhat duty-bound to address the issue posed by the OP.

For those of you who are currently suffering the (totally avoidable) pain that resulted from the abysmal shambles that 'getting Brexit done' spawned, I must offer my sympathy. No UK business, regardless of size, should have been subjected to 'knee-jerk' policies that are still being implementeed 'on-the-hoof'. The damage that has been done through sheer incompetence and arrogance by an administration with deep-seated 'remain' objectives is downright unforgiveable. Will July 4th bring about any change or will we simply move on to a different recipe managed by a historic room occupied by a different mix of 650 self-centred individuals ?

As a nation. we seem to have forgotten how to manage ANYTHING that may last beyond the period of a Parliament. Short-termism seems to be the norm and the well-proven concept of 'spend-to-save' no longer features on any agenda. As a nation, do we see any evidence of investment for the future ? Why is national infrastructure being allowed to fall into decline ? By example, why didn't school governers who knew that their new school extension that was built using RAAC 30 years ring-fence future money at the time of build to ensure a safe and effective re-build of a 'short-life' building ?

 

[Alistairmckinnon1961]

Sorry but, our nationality may be UK, but ethnically we are Europeans whether anyone likes it or not.

Whether we should be in the EU is always going to be a matter of opinion - I think we should be in - however I do recognise other’s preferences.

All the post brexit chaos was predicted, but ignored because a certain buffoon (and now proven liar) crowed about all the “benefits” , lots of £ for the nhs, taking back control….. all very Trumpian- and complete nonsense….,

Maybe not in our lifetimes, but I’d predict we will be back at some point in the future. And I suspect if there were another Brexit vote today, the answer might just be stay in….. however no politician is going to ask that question of us for a very longtime, until they are absolutely certain that public opinion has tired of “flag waving”.

Maybe we will accelerate in that direction when Nigel F gets elected, and thereafter becomes the Tory leader…… mind you they aren’t going to be back in power for quite some time… hopefully.

 

[jcassidy]

Sorry but, our nationality may be UK, but ethnically we are Europeans whether anyone likes it or not.

If we're talking Ethnicity, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of you lot are Angles or Saxons, with a decent bit of Celt and a smattering of Nordic....

The fine scale genetic structure of the British population

(Tongue firmly in cheek)

Ethnicity being belonging to a group sharing a common culture and descent, I find generally I have far more in common with the UK US, Canada and to a certain extent Australia and NZ then I have with French Germans or Italians. I know that one of the big concerns for Ireland with BREXIT was the loss of the 'British Voice' at the table; meaning a perspective firmly based on common law, less beaurocracy, low levels of State Aid, pro-competition, low levels of taxation, etc.
And if anyone here thinks the UK is none of these things, they should go live on Italy or France for a while!

You don't know what Beaurocracy is until you've spent all day shuttling between the local council, the finance ministry, the police ministry, and the tax office, trying to do one little thing that I can do online on Ireland in 30 seconds flat....

 

[stuart little]

Sorry but, our nationality may be UK, but ethnically we are Europeans whether anyone likes it or not.

Whether we should be in the EU is always going to be a matter of opinion - I think we should be in - however I do recognise other’s preferences.

All the post brexit chaos was predicted, but ignored because a certain buffoon (and now proven liar) crowed about all the “benefits” , lots of £ for the nhs, taking back control….. all very Trumpian- and complete nonsense….,

Maybe not in our lifetimes, but I’d predict we will be back at some point in the future. And I suspect if there were another Brexit vote today, the answer might just be stay in….. however no politician is going to ask that question of us for a very longtime, until they are absolutely certain that public opinion has tired of “flag waving”.

Maybe we will accelerate in that direction when Nigel F gets elected, and thereafter becomes the Tory leader…… mind you they aren’t going to be back in power for quite some time… hopefully.

Is that a TR6 dash?