Rhossydd
Established Member
Not yet, with no reviews or user reports, it's a bit of a gamble. If I do I'll report back on what it's like.n0legs":21j7qutp said:
Yes, just tedious unhelpful and irrelevant comments spoiling yet another thread :-(
Buying a **** woodworking plane from Dictum
- Thread starter Rhossydd
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Just buy it if you want it you don't have to listen to anybody else!Rhossydd":xdmark1i said:
MMUK
Established Member
Jacob":hc2v5icz said:
And you don't HAVE to post crap all the time. But you do :wink:
Rhossydd":2gfwgbpr said:
The only woodworking course I've managed to attend was run by Garret Hack who you probably know is a bit of a guru on hand planes. He expressed the view that the **** planes aren't quite up to scratch. I know that that hardly constitutes a review or user report but his views are probably worth taking into account. For what it's worth, if you save the extra money and get the Veritas BU jack plane, I do not think you will be disappointed. I can't fault mine.
Rhossydd
Established Member
Thanks, an interesting view. Although a lot will depend on what he's comparing them to.Andy Kev.":2hrmlwll said:
At the price, I wouldn't expect perfection, but it would be nice to know what compromises there are with them.
I've handled one in Axi and although it's very nicely made, there's just something about it that didn't convince me to get the credit card out. The Lie Nielsen 164 might tick the boxes though.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Not rubbish at all.MMUK":oqpeqjej said:
There's a lot of self deception goes on about these fancy bits of kit - such as the idea that the Norris adjuster is "better" or more precise then the S/B. This is completely wrong.
But if you prefer self deception and wishful thinking, you don't have to let reality get in the way of your shopping - just go for it! :lol:
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Go on just buy it - we all you know you want to! :lol:
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I have the Veritas Low Angle Jack and it is one of my favourite planes, the only thing I don't like about the Noris adjuster is that it sometimes comes out when removing the blade but otherwise fantastic.
Cheers Peter
Cheers Peter
iNewbie
Established Member
Jacob":233gvhpp said:
The self deception and wishful thinking is only in your own world. Thats ok though, we're not living in it. Thats the only reality here.
[/quote]Not rubbish at all.
There's a lot of self deception goes on about these fancy bits of kit - such as the idea that the Norris adjuster is "better" or more precise then the S/B. This is completely wrong.
But if you prefer self deception and wishful thinking, you don't have to let reality get in the way of your shopping - just go for it! :lol:[/quote]
I don't think this is about self-deception and wishful thinking. Consider this: I have more or less mastered my Veritas BU jack plane i.e. I can get it to do what I want it to do without any difficulty and I understand how all its components interact.
On the other hand my new old Bailey style jack plane is still resisting my efforts to get to the same state. It's crystal clear, given the number of people like yourself, who get the right results every time with a Bailey plane, that the reason for this is that I have yet to develop the necessary user skills. I assume I will get there over the next few months. I will, however, be surprised if I can ever get it to produce better results with a piece of wood than my Veritas.
The Norris adjuster certainly works albeit it with your rider that sometimes the blade needs a light hammer tap for final adustment. Peter Sefton (above) reports mild annoyance at said adjuster popping out of its hole when removing the blade. For anybody who can live with the resultant three seconds needed to put it back in, that isn't a reason to discount consideration of this kind of plane. In fact it provides the perfect opportunity to smear a very thin film of oil on the lower side of the adjuster.
There's a lot of self deception goes on about these fancy bits of kit - such as the idea that the Norris adjuster is "better" or more precise then the S/B. This is completely wrong.
But if you prefer self deception and wishful thinking, you don't have to let reality get in the way of your shopping - just go for it! :lol:[/quote]
I don't think this is about self-deception and wishful thinking. Consider this: I have more or less mastered my Veritas BU jack plane i.e. I can get it to do what I want it to do without any difficulty and I understand how all its components interact.
On the other hand my new old Bailey style jack plane is still resisting my efforts to get to the same state. It's crystal clear, given the number of people like yourself, who get the right results every time with a Bailey plane, that the reason for this is that I have yet to develop the necessary user skills. I assume I will get there over the next few months. I will, however, be surprised if I can ever get it to produce better results with a piece of wood than my Veritas.
The Norris adjuster certainly works albeit it with your rider that sometimes the blade needs a light hammer tap for final adustment. Peter Sefton (above) reports mild annoyance at said adjuster popping out of its hole when removing the blade. For anybody who can live with the resultant three seconds needed to put it back in, that isn't a reason to discount consideration of this kind of plane. In fact it provides the perfect opportunity to smear a very thin film of oil on the lower side of the adjuster.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I'd call that "not working properly". The S/B adjuster is finer and more positive in both directions - in/out and lateral. You won't need a hammer!Andy Kev.":1n1th7dp said:
Yes the S/B adjusters often have slack but this is OK as long as you get a positive feel as the slack is taken up. Norris are also prone to slackness but don't have that positive feedback - you sometimes can't be sure that you are moving the blade.
Whereas I accept it as a characteristic of the design with which I can happily live. It takes me little time to do and so I don't mind. An alternative would be to ease off the pressure on the cap and use the mechanism directly, then do the shaving test on a small offcut (as seems to be recommended for all types of planes) which would probably, come to think of it, take up about the same time as it takes to adjust the cut on a BD plane.Jacob":axogzptb said:
The point is that I think for most people other than the busy professional, that such a factor is not a big deal. Once any necessary adjustment is made, the plane stays set and then you get to what matters: the results.
Corneel
Established Member
For your information Andy, it is certainly not recommended to test every plane setting on a piece of scrap. That's too much faffing around. You sight down the sole to look for the blade projection. Then any finetuning is done on the work itself.
BTW, I only have experience with a norris adjuster on blockplanes. They work fine enough. I have more trouble with the cap. Each time I removed the blade I must find the exactly right clamping tension again. Too tight and the adjuster hardly moves, too loose and the blade can move. A knuckle cap blockplane is much easier in that regard.
BTW, I only have experience with a norris adjuster on blockplanes. They work fine enough. I have more trouble with the cap. Each time I removed the blade I must find the exactly right clamping tension again. Too tight and the adjuster hardly moves, too loose and the blade can move. A knuckle cap blockplane is much easier in that regard.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Surely that's another description of them not "working fine"? Though no suggestion of "fine" adjustment with a hammer :lol:Corneel":2adu56ta said:
We used to have a TV which you could fine adjust by thumping it on the side.
Yes they work but not very well, as everybody seems to admit, but reluctantly.
What makes the difference with the S/B? Well the S/B is more complex with more components and lower gearing (more leverage = finer adjustment). I wonder if the main detail is the piece of spring steel under the lever cam. Maybe this gives firm downwards pressure but with less frictional resistance to the movements of the blade? But I suspect it is the total design which counts.
Corneel
Established Member
Exactly. I am a big fan of the Bailey design. Works as advertised, despite the amount of slop in my antique ones. I am a big fan of wooden planes too, but must confess, adjusting them is quite a bit more fidly.
Corneel
Established Member
It seems so! But they are rare on the ground overhere.
They are rare over here too. I suppose you could import one from the US or. . . . build your own:
marples-transitional-revival-t88700.html
They are very good for certain aspects, like the true use of a Jack plane in softwoods and medium density hardwoods. I've even used it across the grain in Indian Rosewood, using it like a gentle scrub plane, thick shavings. No plane I've ever tried (and I've tried a few) is faster or indeed more comfortable to use. They are lighter in weight than your average woody Jack, by a significant margin. But rather like many things in life, it's advantage is also a disadvantage in certain circumstances. The light weight doesn't like gnarly difficult grain. You can use it on such grain but it means the user has to put in more effort to prevent it being deflected. To a certain extent that defeats the objective.
I'm going to start a shorter smoothing plane version shortly, probably at York pitch or slightly higher. That should negate the disadvantage of lightweight woodies. Slightly harder to push but much lighter in weight, the higher pitch dealing better with tearout.
marples-transitional-revival-t88700.html
They are very good for certain aspects, like the true use of a Jack plane in softwoods and medium density hardwoods. I've even used it across the grain in Indian Rosewood, using it like a gentle scrub plane, thick shavings. No plane I've ever tried (and I've tried a few) is faster or indeed more comfortable to use. They are lighter in weight than your average woody Jack, by a significant margin. But rather like many things in life, it's advantage is also a disadvantage in certain circumstances. The light weight doesn't like gnarly difficult grain. You can use it on such grain but it means the user has to put in more effort to prevent it being deflected. To a certain extent that defeats the objective.
I'm going to start a shorter smoothing plane version shortly, probably at York pitch or slightly higher. That should negate the disadvantage of lightweight woodies. Slightly harder to push but much lighter in weight, the higher pitch dealing better with tearout.
Corneel
Established Member
Watch out Mignal with higher pitch. A 45 degree plane has a strong downwards pulling force on the edge. It keeps the blade in the cut so to speak. Higher pitch reduces this effect quite a bit. So a light weight plane with a high pitch doesn't sound like a very good idea. You must bear down on it even more.
