'Burgess' Cyclone parts

[9fingers]

Hi All,

I'm in the process of collecting materials to make a cyclone along the lines of the successful 'Burgess' design.

I thought maybe worth circulating my sources so far.

So far it seems that the Conical plant pots are back in stock at Ikea and stock levels can be checked on line. Search for 'Huson' which is their name for the pot. £22.90 each

As recommended by Barry B, CCL seem very good for ductwork and fittings various and also sell 3m lengths of studding reasonably. Google for branches near you.

Today I spoke to Charnwood - one of the importers of Taiwan type dust collectors. They will sell an impellor and snail body for one of their 3hp DCs for just under 80 ukp delivered. Not dirt cheap but gets one of the difficult bits sorted.

Axminster were also quite helpful but would need to order parts which were all on 6-8 weeks delivery whereas Charnwood had parts in stock! I did not check with other suppliers

I got lucky with the motor - 3hp 3phase 2850 rpm 25ukp from a mate but for about twice that you should be able to get something from eBay if you lurk awhile and don't get carried away with bidding.


Usual disclaimer: I have no commercial connection with the suppliers mentioned other than a customer.

Hope this might help someone.

Bob

 

[wizer]

thanks for letting us know Bob, I hope you will keep us informed ont he project and, of course, provide plenty of pictures

 

[9fingers]

Hi WiZer,

I'm certainly happy to report on progress. Today has been 10 weeks backwards however on the dust collector. Charnwood rang up and unlike in 'little Britain' the stock computer said Yes ! but the warehous shelves had no blower bodies on them.
Bummer! so it is now on backorder from Taiwan.

Still plenty to be getting on with building the new woodworking workshop. Nearly 30 sq metres. External walls all complete and the roof on. Doors built and hung. Custom three point locking system under design and to be constructed in the metalworking shop fairly soon.

I'm doing the dust collector in parallel with the worshop as I'm planning to house the blower and the silencer up in the apex of the pitched roof out of the way but it is going to be tight so I need the parts in my hand to ensure they fit. I don't currently have any CAD tools so it's pencil & paper and offer up to fit.

I spent my lunch break stripping down my new old bandsaw - a Startrite 18-s-1. I'm keeping this at work until the new workshop floor is down. Bandwheel bearings are shot so I've whipped those out and found some new ones online at 3ukp each. www.arceurotrade.co.uk seem to offer bearings at very good prices and come recommended by my metalworking friends.

Ooh! that is twice I've mentioned metalworking. I hope you guys don't throw me off the forum for infidelity!!

Regards

Bob

Off to Nottingham tomorrow to pick up the blower motor.

 

[wizer]

id be very interested in that 3 point door locking system Bob, I'm bee thinking how I can safely secure my forthcoming workshop.

 

[Inspector]

"I'm doing the dust collector in parallel with the worshop as I'm planning to house the blower and the silencer up in the apex of the pitched roof out of the way but it is going to be tight so I need the parts in my hand to ensure they fit."

I was on another forum a while back where the poster was trying to fit the cyclone in the attic of his shop as well and had similar height issues. I suggested that the cyclone be mounted on an angle to reduce the height, believing that is should work unless tilted to extremes. After all tornadoes are never perpendicular to the ground and they don't have a problem with American trailer parks.

Another poster responded stating that he had been in contact with the Clear Vue people and they had tested their plastic cyclone at angles until it was horizontal and watched what happened. It works at all angles with dust but when near the horizontal the heaviest lumps and chunks don't exit the cone, instead just spinning in the main cylinder section.

As an example a 72" long cyclone mounted at 45 degrees would be about 51" high (not factoring for diameters), saving almost 2' of vertical space.

Also mounting on an angle with the end of the cone coming out the outside wall would allow the chips to drop into a bin outside the shop while still having the dust collector protected inside.

So mounting off the vertical could solve your problem

 

[9fingers]

Thanks for the tilting suggestion Inspector.

So far I think I'll have enough height for a vertical cyclone but the blower will be hung in the apex of the roof. a flexible hose will connect the inlet (which is on axis with the motor) to the cyclone and follow the angle of the rafters down to wall plate level where the top of the cyclone will be located.
The blower outlet should just clear the top of the horizontal rafter braces.
( the rafters and brace look like a captial A)
Once in situ, a plywood or mdf ceiling will line the lower legs of the A and the underside of the horizontal brace with suitable removeable panels for maintenance.

Regards

Bob

 

[9fingers]

Hi WiZer

I’ll try and describe the idea behind my 3 point locking system.

Visualise a conventional mortise latch as used on an internal house door. This will hold the door closed when unlocked.
On the inside of the door, assume the internal handle is removed and a steel disc of say about 3” diameter fitted in its place driven by the outside handle via the normal square rod. Think of this disc as a clock face with 12 uppermost and 3 facing the edge of the door.

Connect a steel bar with a pivot pin onto the disc at 12 oclock with the bar going to the top of the door and another at 6 oclock going to the bottom of the door. The top and bottom ends locate into striker plates at the top and bottom of the door frame.
A third shorter bar is pivoted at about 1 oclock and its striker plate is at handle height on the frame.
All three bars can slide in guides fixed near the top, bottom and outer edge of the door.

The disc as described, is in the locked position and a pin tumbler lock cylinder (yale type) drives a bolt into one of the vertical bars to immobilise the whole mechanism.

To open the door, the lock bolt is withdrawn using a key and the disk is rotated anti clockwise by about 2 hours. In terms of angular position, 12 becomes 10, 1 becomes 11 and 6 becomes 4.
All three bars will then move out of the striker plates and allow the door to open.

One further scheme I have yet to design is to arrange the link between the standard square drive metal actuator from the mortise latch and the disc to have considerable angular slack.

In this way I want the effect that when the handle is horizontal and pushed downwards only the latch moves and the door opens but when the handle is lifted above horizontal the three bars move into the locked position and stay there whilst the handle spring returns to horizontal again.

This disc mechanism will be covered by a housing to which a standard internal handle will be fitted to allow the latch to be operated from the inside as well.

I know a picture would help but I don’t have one other than the one in my head!! I hope you can get the gist of how it works.

Regards

Bob

 

[RogerS]

WiZeR...the text in this lock descrioption refers to something similar, I think

 

[wizer]

sounds like clever stuff, way beyond me tho

Cheers

 

[dickm]

sounds like clever stuff, way beyond me tho

Cheers

Dunno if it is any help, but our house has Cardale garage doors which have three point locking, basically as described, but with sprung bolts in each position that are just pulled back by wires from a triangular piece on the back of the lock. You might find that buying their locking handle (or getting one off a replaced door - that's where my second one came from) would save time and money?

 

[Barry Burgess]

The Bill Pentz's comments on the Burgess Cheapie

 

[dexteria]

Hi Bob,

Did you have any luck getting the blower housing and fan from Charnwood? What did you ask them for, did you have a part number or say it was to fix a fualty unit etc?

Cheers

Mark

 

[9fingers]

Hi Mark,

I should have received this by now but I rang Charnwood last week and they said the shipment from Taiwan which is due next won't have my parts on it - Bu**er!. The next one is due 15th January 07.
I did ask how they expected to support a product range properly when the shipment interval were so long but no response naturally.

The approach I took was to order spare parts for a particular model. When I rang to do this they asked for part numbers and as I had none they faxed me an exploded diagram of my chosen model which had part numbers marked on it.

I'm ordering the blower casing (snail like unit) and the impeller. I reckoned I could make the inlet plate ( flat disc with a central collar for the inlet pipe) and that the motor I have *should* be a standard mount and if not maybe an adaptor would be needed but that would just be a flat plate too.
If the motor shaft diameter is wrong I can turn it down or make a bush as needed. - One of my other hobbies is metal work and I have a lathe, mill, etc
One saving grace is that Charnwood don't take payment until they have the goods.


I guess I will just have to wait till January - you will possible hear the fanfare when it arrives!!

Regards

Bob

PS at the same time as approaching charnwood, I rang axminster and they would also order spares from Taiwan - possibly arrive from the same factory and on the same boat but painted white instead!

 

[BrianD]

Have you considerd RS Components for the blower?

 

[9fingers]

Brian,

Thanks for the reply.

I've just had a look at RS and unless I've overlooked something, can't see anything near man enough for the job

Typical Burgess cyclones based on the Pentz designs need 15" blowers running on 3-5 hp motors.

regards

Bob

 

[Barry Burgess]

Bob I went down both the Charwood and Axminster route to get the impellor - with Axminster technical department in the end they told me they would not supply. Charwood said they would have one with the next shipment but it never arrived and they did not call me back. You might be onto a lost cause.
I built the Pentz MDF version with the 13 coach bolts but binned it when I bought the dust extractor.

 

[Barry Burgess]

From This thread the PhD paper quoted now having read through all the science says that the diameter of the cyclone is not relevant and their mathematical model used diameters from 4" to 36". So much for the Pentz teaching - it has to be 18".
Barry

 

[Nick W]

Doesn't the 18" come from the use of 6" pipe? I.E. it has to be 18" if you are using 6" pipe because you then need a 6" thingy up the middle, surrounded by a 6" wide downflow chamber.

Now of course if you are questioning the need for 6" pipe that is a different kettle of wotsits altogether. :lol:

 

[Barry Burgess]

Doesn't the 18" come from the use of 6" pipe? I.E. it has to be 18" if you are using 6" pipe because you then need a 6" thingy up the middle, surrounded by a 6" wide downflow chamber.

Now of course if you are questioning the need for 6" pipe that is a different kettle of wotsits altogether. :lol:

The "rule" that the diameter has to be 3 times the diameter of the pipe is also wrong.
Barry

 

[ivan]

I think the paper Barry referrs to above, is saying that the cyclone size is set by the intended airflow - cu ft/ min. The inlet speed is important, and the cyclone is sized by choosing the inlet diameter to give the proper airspeed. From this all other sizes flow. Smaller cyclones should not give a higher flow resistance provided the inlet velocity stays the same (ie the cu ft /min is lower too)

If you want to move 1000 odd cu ft/min as per Pentz (probably a good idea) then this will set the ideal main diameter at around 18-20". Barry seems to have been lucky with his cyclone, and gets virtually nowt in his filters. Some of those makes Pentz grumbles about have a bin under both cyclone and the filters, so they must be expecting to have to clean out bucket loads from their filters?