Brown trouser moment

[Karl]

Out of interest, why did you have the blade protruding so high for a 6mm thick cut?

Another fault of the guard and riving knife set-up. If you have the blade protruding 10mm, the riving knife is below the level of the table. So you have to increase the blade height to get the riving knife above the table. Then keep increasing until you can attach the guard. Then keep increasing until the 6mm piece passes under the guard.

In summary, the knife/guard system is a pile of cr@p.

Karl did you keep the (£30 bargain) Axminster extended arm and crown guard that Rob mention's?

No - I sold it on to Trim The King. It's too big for my 'shop. Hence the reason that I need to make a better guarding system.

In your case any pressure on the front of the guard or vibration will make it pivot on the nut/bolt and make the rear fixing lift until it comes out of the open slot.

It's probably been covered before but how do they get away without CE marking?

I think that vibration has caused the guard to work loose and fall forward onto the blade.

No idea on the CE system. My understanding is that you can use a non-CE machine in a personal capacity but not in a commercial environment. But not sure why a manufacturer would release a machine onto the market which isn't CE certified.

I'd be having a quiet word with Mr Arrowsmith if I was you, Karl.

His policy of ignoring CE rules is going to bite him on the *** one day

I reckon he'd laugh his **** off and rattle on about "amateurs".

If i'd bought the machine off him from new then it'd be a different matter. But I don't think he'd give a rats ar$e, seeing as I didn't buy it off him.

 

[jimi43]

I hope I am not going to regret asking this, maybe it is really obvious but I just cannot see it.

Is SUVA an acronym for something or a manufacturers name like hoover is to vacuum cleaners?

If it's an acronym I cannot work it out. :?

Help

Mick

I believe it to be a company....

HERE is a reference

AND HERE

I first found one on my INCA table saw...it has SUVA written on it....I think it is a Swiss safety organisation.....

That one is beautifully designed!

Jim

 

[matt]

The guard seems to have two bolts - the one with the black handle and a nut and bolt. Yet the riving knife has 1 slot. Which fixing do you use in the slot?

Also, you say the riving knife is comes up after the blade but in the picture it looks much higher than the blade. Is the rise and fall not at the same rate as the blade?

 

[TheTiddles]

If somebody's selling anything without a CE mark in this country I'd be suprised, if they are, Trading Standards should be informed as it's illegal and dangerous

Aidan

 

[Paul Chapman]

Blimey, that was nasty, Karl :shock: Glad you weren't too badly hurt.

Take care.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Mike.C]

If somebody's selling anything without a CE mark in this country I'd be suprised, if they are, Trading Standards should be informed as it's illegal and dangerous

Aidan

Re the dado/arbor part of their saw haven't Woodfords been doing it for years? http://www.woodfordwm.co.uk/acatalog/Table_Saws1.html
I maybe wrong but I am sure that I have read about this on the forum

Cheers

Mike

 

[Jake]

If somebody's selling anything without a CE mark in this country I'd be suprised, if they are, Trading Standards should be informed as it's illegal and dangerous

It was pretty clear a few years ago, I can't be bothered to check now, but their website had a section for these saws and then a different range of saws for professional use which boasted of their CE rating roll.

At the time, it was very h&s nancy boy police to give a crap about things like that on here. Probably still is.

 

[chingerspy]

Glad to hear you survived that one Karl. Could have been nastier than it was. It is definately worth considering a letter to the manufacturer (its still all their parts that caused the problem) and one to the goverment mentioning the unstamped sale - assuming new ones are still unstamped. With machinery this dangerous they may be interested and get someone onto it quickly.

I hope you can get it up and running again with better guard and knife soon and be able to carry on your work. Grab yourself a whiskey and have a sit down for now though!

Man I'm having second thoughts about using a tablesaw at all. I have the one I got from Bloonose but have only fired it up for 5 seconds. It made a racket and to be honest was a bit scarey seeing that blade whizz round. I love my SCMS and circular saws when I use them but I might shelve it and make room for a decent bandsaw instead.

I like handsawing stuff anyway, good exercise and I'm getting a lot better at it The slope's expensive though!

 

[andy king]

Hi Karl,

glad you're OK!
As The Tiddles states, selling stuff in the UK without a CE certificate is illegal.
I spoke with someone from HSE a few years back regarding the CE regulations, and apparently, some smaller powertools can be self certificated, but tablesaws and other potentially hazardous machinery has to be regulated by an independant authority, and anything coming into, or made in the UK has to have a CE mark. I'm very surprised that they haven't been pulled up for it by now.
They may be hoping for the best because of the work needed and the time scale to get it legal if any big alterations are needed as there is a lot of work involved for a CE mark.
I remember speaking to Record Power when they were introducing a small table saw about that.
The amount of time and effort put in to ensure the saw was meeting the regulations for CE is massive.
I saw the paperwork and documentation for it and that was a good 2 inches or more thick.
Factor in the time schedule in getting the saw to meet the regulations when its an imported machine and a lot of work is needed to get things where they should be - and where it should be is a machine that is safe for anyone to use, not just professional woodworkers.
A major accident from a machine that doesn't conform, whether a hobby of pro user would have HSE looking for a prosecution from what I was told.

cheers,
Andy

 

[Mike.C]

I may have got things wrong, because when Philly first got his Woodword 10" Xcalibur he did a mini review in the Woodworker, and after just re-reading it he mentions that they are CE approved. Which is strange when you think that the lenght of arbor lets you fit dado head cutters.

Cheers

Mike

 

[andy king]

I may have got things wrong, because when Philly first got his Woodword 10" Xcalibur he did a mini review in the Woodworker, and after just re-reading it he mentions that they are CE approved. Which is strange when you think that the lenght of arbor lets you fit dado head cutters.

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike,

a friend of mine owns one and I looked at it for him when he had a problem. The only thing on it that bore a CE mark was the switchbox, the machine itself, including the documentation had no mark at all.
I looked at a bigger model back in issue 146, and as Jake has said, that one, aimed for the pro market (it was around £2000 back then) was CE marked.
I commented on it in my original review, including my own concerns on how they got around the legislation for extended arbors etc, but that was cut from the review by Pete Martin as he thought it irrelevant... :roll:

cheers,
Andy

 

[Mike.C]

I may have got things wrong, because when Philly first got his Woodword 10" Xcalibur he did a mini review in the Woodworker, and after just re-reading it he mentions that they are CE approved. Which is strange when you think that the lenght of arbor lets you fit dado head cutters.

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike,

a friend of mine owns one and I looked at it for him when he had a problem. The only thing on it that bore a CE mark was the switch box, the machine itself, including the documentation had no mark at all.
I looked at a bigger model back in issue 146, and as Jake has said, that one, aimed for the pro market (it was around £2000 back then) was CE marked.
I commented on it in my original review, including my own concerns on how they got around the legislation for extended arbors etc, but that was cut from the review by Pete Martin as he thought it irrelevant... :roll:

cheers,
Andy

Hi Andy,

Excuse my french but that is utter crap. How can an editor (he was an editor wasn't he?) call the safety of his readers irrelevant??? :evil: And for the company to try and con it's customers by just having the switch box covered by the CE mark is down right scandalous :evil: Think about it if someone like me who knows bugger all about CE marks or health and safety bought a saw that had a CE mark on one thing, I would automatically think that the whole saw was covered. And I would not think it unreasonable for others to think the same.

Cheers

Mike

 

[andy king]

Excuse my french but that is utter crap. How can an editor (he was an editor wasn't he?) call the safety of his readers irrelevant??? :evil: And for the company to try and con it's customers by just having the switch box covered by the CE mark is down right scandalous :evil: Think about it if someone like me who knows bugger all about CE marks or health and safety bought a saw that had a CE mark on one thing, I would automatically think that the whole saw was covered. And I would not think it unreasonable for others to think the same.

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike,

I wasn't happy with it myself when I read it...
Pete was the Deputy Editor and he subbed all my work, but I never got to read the final subbed versions of any of my reviews until they were in print :evil:
Still, that was back then...
With regards to the CE on the switchbox, I believe that was because the box used was one from a manufacturer or importer in the UK who did the right thing and had their stuff regulated.
I'm assuming that the saws are brought in and the NVR's fitted here, hence the box having the CE mark.

 

[Ironballs]

Blimey, glad you're alright Karl. At least it proved one thing, your guard would take a bit of abuse before disintegrating, giving you that split second should you slip and fall on your blade.

Guess that blade is destined for a place on the shop wall :shock:

 

[ByronBlack]

Glad you got away without any serious injury. This kind of thing sums up my reasoning for going galoot - I was getting more and more fed up with working on/maintaining/making safe machinery. For me personally, it's just not worth it. Commercial work is obviously a different matter, but as a hobbyist I feel the extra work with hand-tools is worth the peace of mind.

 

[Harbo]

I have just checked on my Deft (which has an unusual crown guard design) - the guard is fastened by a bolt going through a hole in the riving knife and not a slot.

Glad you were not badly hurt.

Rod

 

[BradNaylor]

In summary, the knife/guard system is a pile of cr@p.

Hence the reason that I need to make a better guarding system.

I'd just buy a decent guard as a spare part from a reputable machinery importer (the make doesn't matter) and then get a new riving knife made to fit your saw by a local metalworker. Drill/machine the knife to accept and hold the guard safely and Bob's your uncle.

 

[Einari Rystykaemmen]

Wow! I'm glad you get away from it without serious injury! You're lucky guy... :shock:

I'm surprised that it's leagal to sell anything without CE approvement in EU area... Especially power tools or anything electric powered machines.

Personally I would contact manufacturer/reseller about this issue and make some serious accusitions... There is no excuse about this kind of serious safety issue.

 

[devonwoody]

I suppose you put your underwear in the dust sack and didn't take them indoors. :wink:

Serious, pleased to hear that injuries were no worse.

I've noticed the riving knife on my Axminster T/S has sometimes crept up on the blade, anyone ever had a riving knife not made of steel?

 

[Philly]

Just been looking at my riving knife - it seems like Karl has chopped his down, which is why the accident took place.
Glad you weren't hurt - hope your underpants are salvageable.
Best regards
Philly