Bringing goods from the EU

[sploo]

Hmm, that's interesting. Maybe we could do a little poll of that here?

Just don't ask Priti Patel

 

[Awac]

Some years ago I recall reading an article that claimed the most accurate correlation of belief/demographic for voting leave (a better fit than social status, gender, income, or race) was actually support for the death penalty. I'm not sure if that's actually true, but from memory I think the article was accompanied with some data (so it wasn't just a joke/made up piece).

Correlation and causation are, of course, two different things.

Sploo. You really pick a difficult subject! I have a new book to read just arrived today saws and saw makers from 1660....and you are keeping me from it!

Depends which politician the death penalty was for...

 

[RobinBHM]

That's where the line lies for me. It's absolutely fine to argue about one political or economic "way" vs another. It's unlikely either side will ever be completely right or completely wrong (and pretty much every model from anarchy to fascism, communism to hyper-capitalism can be advocated for with some valid positives).

The issue is when there's outright deception; the NHS claim on the bus being just one (well worn) issue, but demonstrably false from day one.

The problem with "just moving on" is that it doesn't tackle the problem. Imagine if murderers started asking people to just move on and let the issue go

the "its done we need to move on".....

is a narrative put forward by people who were able to make any brexit agument they wanted, whilst they enjoyed the benefits of the Single Market, but they dont want the reality analysed, oh no, thats not fair, we mustnt do that.


Here is the reality: it is only DAY 2 of brexit.

 

[sploo]

Sploo. You really pick a difficult subject! I have a new book to read just arrived today saws and saw makers from 1660....and you are keeping me from it!

Depends which politician the death penalty was for...

LOL I wasn't intimating that, but it's funny to consider nonetheless

My Patel comment was in reference to the hilarious/excruciating exchange between Ian Hislop and herself on the subject - mostly where she seemed to struggle with the concept that executed people are dead, and therefore when miscarriages of justice happen it's rather difficult to correct. She's not the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[sploo]

the "its done we need to move on".....

is a narrative put forward by people who were able to make any brexit agument they wanted, whilst they enjoyed the benefits of the Single Market, but they dont want the reality analysed, oh no, thats not fair, we mustnt do that.


Here is the reality: it is only DAY 2 of brexit.

Well, I mean, we have gone from "it'll be easy/great" to "oh come on, stop exaggerating; the issues won't be that bad/50 years to recover" to "can we just move on and stop talking about it".

Sounds like a resounding success to me.

 

[RobinBHM]

jingoistic claptrap erupts

Certain MPs have been out in force on twitter.

one of them said:

"last month whilst we were in the Single Market, huge delays at Dover, today its been quite and calm at Dover"

 

[Spectric]

Everything goes in circles, empires rise and empires fall and the UK is in a decline phase, not entirely it's own fault. Once upon a time the proportion of suppliers to buyers was massive, there was a huge market into which to sell your goods but now that market has also become suppliers and we have become expensive labour. As the Asian markets grow, they will force us into becoming cheap labour and they will eventually become expensive labour themselves and the circle continues so long as the impact of global warming allows. I do remember when "made in England" actually meant something but as we have progressed through " assembled in England" to "rebranded in England" then our credability has been lost. We could not even come up with a working track and trace system here in the Uk, not complicated but beyond our ability yet many asian countries had a system working very quickly. This was not entirely due to technical competance but probably equally to the madness of modern data protection, which is worthless if you are dead due to the virus.

 

[RobinBHM]

Well, I mean, we have gone from "it'll be easy/great" to "oh come on, stop exaggerating; the issues won't be that bad/50 years to recover" to "can we just move on and stop talking about it".

Sounds like a resounding success to me.

the problem for me with the argument "we must move on" -is that it is impossible to do all the time the lies and misinformation continue, which it will all the time populism is the political strategy.

 

[julianf]

Adam Smith or Karl Marx

I very much doubt that the majority of leave voters (or remain voters to be fair) would have any idea who Adam Smith is at all. And most would only know Marx as that Corbyn chap was into him....

There are a lot of crafts/small business that could do well alongside technology, but they can not compete on price

I make specialist stuff. 98% ish goes for export. (as in about 1 in 50 sales are to uk customers)
The exported goods are split about 50:50 between the EU and the rest of the world.

My customers are mostly not VAT registered. As most of my final price is labour, i am deliberately and legitimately also not vat registered.


So, 49% ish of my sales are exported to the EU, and now those EU customers are suddenly, if i fill out the paperwork correctly, going to be looking at a price thats 20% higher than it was last week.

But its not really going to be 20% higher at all, as then there will be processing, and VAT on the processing. So, assuming the processing charges are similar to those we suffer, my price in the EU will actually be 50% higher than it was last week.

What is that going to do for my competitiveness, i wonder?

But, I'm told, there will be advantages to leaving the EU. Just no one has been able to tangibly tell me what just yet. Something about less illegal immigrants and more money for the NHS.

My old man voted leave. He is only alive as some chap with brown skin and a funny accent chopped half his pancreas out. So that one was ok, but, still, we cant support all this immigration, right...

He was shocked when he called up on new years day and my partner explained to him that i was a little bothered about the whole situation.

"But there's no duty" he said, with ignorance of the actual impact to small business exporters.


Most small business start small (the clue is in the name, really). If they have anything to do with exporting their goods to the EU, the whole VAT thing is going to be a real hinderance from the start.

The easiest way to stop small businesses from becoming those big "world beating" businesses is kill them off when they are small.



But, honestly, when have the Tories ever really cared about anyone other than those at the fatter end of the stick?



"But we can get rid of VAT now we are not dictated to by the EU"

The Tories hate VAT, obviously, what with it being a regressive tax - they demonstrated their hate of it by raising it from 15-20% since taking power.


Going back to -

Adam Smith or Karl Marx

This is the problem. I mean who amongst us wholly understands Quantitative easing, and its effect on the asset market? I mean i have an interest in this stuff, and couldn't pretend to give more than a very patchy summary.


So, going back to my previous post, not only is downright indisputable lying to the populous now acceptable, but also most people just dont understand the actual mechanics of any of these things. My old man isnt a total idiot, but the whole VAT thing just had not even registered with him. And he knows his son exports to the EU.

 

[RobinBHM]

Everything goes in circles, empires rise and empires fall and the UK is in a decline phase, not entirely it's own fault

Its a good point

forecasts for share of global GDP in 2035 put UK down in 10th place

we will be overtaken by India (again), Mexico, Vietnam, Brazil.

 

[Jacob]

for IBS and Johnson it's a spectator sport - "come on chaps you can do it" sort of thing.
If it turns out badly they'll both jeering from the sidelines as though it's not their fault.

 

[Spectric]

Whats Iritable Bowel Syndrome got to do with us leaving the EU.

 

[Jacob]

Whats Iritable Bowel Syndrome got to do with us leaving the EU.

oops yes I meant Irritable Duncan Syndrome!

 

[RobinBHM]

The easiest way to stop small businesses from becoming those big "world beating" businesses is kill them off when they are small

Small businesses will be hit the hardest.

Govt advice is to use the services of a customs agent.....that's a real hit to the bottom line.

Big business like Tescos will already have an importing department and almost certainly have IT systems set up, so it will have very little impact on their coatings due to scales of economy.

 

[RobinBHM]

Whats Iritable Bowel Syndrome got to do with us leaving the EU.

He gives me an irritable bowel whenever he appears on TV.

 

[doctor Bob]

Yes, this has become quite a concerning issue in recent times. Echo chambers and polarisation are becoming problematic because people don't even need to accept there's another point of view to theirs any more, they just block it or disconnect from those who disagree.

It's interesting isn't it. 2-3 pages since your post and I would call it all confirmation posting, nothing new apart from backing up opinion.
As I said, I see exactly the same on another forum but from the brexit side.
Neither achieves diddly squat.
Not that I'm against it, I guess I'm just wondering in a semi rational way, why we feel the need to do it. I guess it comes down to the fundimental need to think or feel you are right and not alone in your view.

 

[Jacob]

It's interesting isn't it. 2-3 pages since your post and I would call it all confirmation posting, nothing new apart from backing up opinion.
As I said, I see exactly the same on another forum but from the brexit side.
Neither achieves diddly squat.
Not that I'm against it, I guess I'm just wondering in a semi rational way, why we feel the need to do it. I guess it comes down to the fundimental need to think or feel you are right and not alone in your view.

I think it achieves quite a lot. It's a fairly normal discussion, which go on all over the place and in the media. Good democratic thing that people are joining in to back up their opinions and being presented with others with added facts and references.
Yes it can reach the very repetitive point where nothing new is said but that's how they go, until something else changes.

 

[doctor Bob]

I think it achieves quite a lot.

I'm not surprised as it supports your view more. I like my other forum as it supports my view more. But accept I have really not changed my opinion one bit.
It's tribalism, exactly like football for politically minded.


Although to be honest Jacob, your home team is not remain but Jeremy Corbyn but even when relegation happens the love continues.

 

[Awac]

I very much doubt that the majority of leave voters (or remain voters to be fair) would have any idea who Adam Smith is at all. And most would only know Marx as that Corbyn chap was into him....




I make specialist stuff. 98% ish goes for export. (as in about 1 in 50 sales are to uk customers)
The exported goods are split about 50:50 between the EU and the rest of the world.
But its not really going to be 20% higher at all, as then there will be processing, and VAT on the processing. So, assuming the processing charges are similar to those we suffer, my price in the EU will actually be 50% higher than it was last week.

Julian, I feel for you brother.
Perhaps start a new thread on this forum for anyone who produces and sells? Maybe this forum could help small producers hit by this. Would the moderator allow help/online shop/links/organised bulk purchase for small business hit by brexit? Ask them? I would buy from you if I could and you had what I required. In a way I am helping brexit by supporting business, but your livelihood means more if I, and others can help. As far as I am concerned everyone on this forum has a connection through our interest, and I would help you even if you thought Pritti was hot....oh the very thought...and for that matter Gove....

Ask other small businesses to note for example:

1. Extra costs in % they are having to pay or for that matter savings?!!
2. Paperwork difficulties or benefits.
3. Loss of business or new market gains.
4. Legal angles that might help or hinder.
5. Government grants, bank loans etc (oh, stop it, must not get facetious!).
6. Etc.

 

[sploo]

It's interesting isn't it. 2-3 pages since your post and I would call it all confirmation posting, nothing new apart from backing up opinion.
As I said, I see exactly the same on another forum but from the brexit side.
Neither achieves diddly squat.
Not that I'm against it, I guess I'm just wondering in a semi rational way, why we feel the need to do it. I guess it comes down to the fundimental need to think or feel you are right and not alone in your view.

Genuine question; what's the general feeling on that brexit-leaning forum? One of job done, disappointment that it could have been better, or something else?