Bringing goods from the EU

[jackal]

For some I am sure it is sad, but how many people does that actually represent vs the people who struggle because the borders are open to those who want to come here?

Judging by a lot of the comments here it seems to boil back down to a point that has been raised before, the haves vs the have nots. The people who wanted to remain appear to me to be people with money and comfort. Second homes in France, renovation projects, retired like to travel.
I don't have a problem with that, I don't begrudge anyone for enjoying the benefits of their capital whether hard earned or not. But people who think like that seem to forget that the vast majority of the country is not in that position.
I am sure it would be lovely to have a second home in the south of Spain, I love Spain and spending my winters there would be much nicer than spending them here, but that isn't a realistic prospect for me or anyone I know.

I live in France and moved here because I was not wealthy like many of my friends. I here this argument so many times but we are not all Stanley Johnson!

 

[Mark Karacsonyi]

I don’t know what the long term affects of trade and retail will bring about yet to date. I placed an Axminster order on the 23rd of December. As of yesterday I received a DHL email, asking me if the order was for personal or professional use.

also I get 3 free days of storage at their depot, after that I need to pay. It’s 16000 Hungarian Forint per day. Not done the math it’s the cost of 3-4 beers.

Any surcharges would be paid by Axminster. The rest was purely information only. So I really need to be in for the delivery.

 

[sploo]

It always strikes me as ironic that the people who promote "the standing on one's own two feet" are generally those who have benefitted hugely from family wealth.

I used to think the idea that there were sections of society that considered the poor to be poor because they couldn't be bothered to be rich was a lazy stereotype - until I encountered such thinkers.

The "Dilbert Zone" cartoonist Scott Adams once noted that the best ways to get rich are to inherit it, or embezzle it; but it's even better to inherit it from someone who embezzled it.

 

[sploo]

I think the one think to come out of brexit is that these days, argueing for 4 years on an internet forum brings out the worst in people (me included) achieves nothing, no one changed their mind, and the debate is never ending, it's never over whilst people want one upmanship. On a forum people don't want to give up, be proved wrong, listen to other views, read diverse arguements written by unlike minds.
Yet on more rational topics most are quite open.
I have read and follwed this thread with interest, as I do on a bigger forum where the influence is more pro brexit. It follows exactly the same path but reverse as more posts are pro, where as here most are against.
It's just a numbers game as to who dominates the forum, it therefore encourages more posts as the winning feeling is there ....................... Just my opinion.

The sad thing is; no one has won. Mostly we all lose.

There will always be those who will tell you there's something (or someone) to hate - and if you'll just give me your vote I'll eradicate the problem and bring utopia.

Inevitably the believers will be angry because they'll hate the bogeyman they've been sold, and ultimately be dissatisfied at the failure of the populists to deliver the promised dreamland.

The non-believers will be angry because they're being lied to.

The believers will hate the non-believers, and the populists will paint the non-believers as part of the problem (further fueling the hate).

The non-believers will hate the believers for being fooled, and the populists for doing the fooling.

One day humanity may learn - but we've repeated this pattern for hundreds of years so I'm afraid I'm not exactly hopeful.

 

[julianf]

Some people buy a new car (or whatever) that turns out to be a dog...

Some of those people will say that it was a bad choice and that they should have bought a different car.

But some, no matter how bad the car is, will still sing it's praises, because (I assume) they chose it, and to say it's no good would would seem an insult to them.

This is, in my experience, common with product choices - that some people will have always made the "right" decision no matter what the outcome, whilst some will use the outcome to judge if they made the right choice or not.

We will see this with Brexit, with no doubt at all.

 

[Awac]

Some people buy a new car (or whatever) that turns out to be a dog...

Some of those people will say that it was a bad choice and that they should have bought a different car.

But some, no matter how bad the car is, will still sing it's praises, because (I assume) they chose it, and to say it's no good would would seem an insult to them.

This is, in my experience, common with product choices - that some people will have always made the "right" decision no matter what the outcome, whilst some will use the outcome to judge if they made the right choice or not.

We will see this with Brexit, with no doubt at all.

Too true Julian. Not only cars, you should have seen my first attempts carving a spoon.......I was determined to use it....!

 

[Misterdog]

I think the one think to come out of brexit is that these days, argueing for 4 years on an internet forum brings out the worst in people (me included) achieves nothing, no one changed their mind, and the debate is never ending, it's never over whilst people want one upmanship. On a forum people don't want to give up, be proved wrong, listen to other views, read diverse arguements written by unlike minds.
Yet on more rational topics most are quite open.
I have read and follwed this thread with interest, as I do on a bigger forum where the influence is more pro brexit. It follows exactly the same path but reverse as more posts are pro, where as here most are against.
It's just a numbers game as to who dominates the forum, it therefore encourages more posts as the winning feeling is there ....................... Just my opinion.

Basically there is a 50/50 split in the population and in politicians as to leave/remain.
Some people including myself were/are split 50/50 as is/was Jeremy Corbyn.
He could not implement his re-nationalisation projects without falling foul of EU anti government subsidy legislation.

It's been a wonderful fun filled journey, I can't wait until we have another referendum with a view to re-joining the EU. So we can have all this joy again.

The cost to our economy over the past four years has been breath-taking.

Imagine if people were able to see both sides of a debate and accept some compromise.

 

[Jacob]

Some people buy a new car (or whatever) that turns out to be a dog...

Some of those people will say that it was a bad choice and that they should have bought a different car.

But some, no matter how bad the car is, will still sing it's praises, because (I assume) they chose it, and to say it's no good would would seem an insult to them.

This is, in my experience, common with product choices - that some people will have always made the "right" decision no matter what the outcome, whilst some will use the outcome to judge if they made the right choice or not.

We will see this with Brexit, with no doubt at all.

It's called "confirmation bias" but it doesn't alter the truth of whether or not a decision was a good one.
If/when things don't turn out as forecast there'll also be a massive blame game. Farage/Johnson will blame everybody starting with the EU itself; the complexity of new deals will be seen as self justifying proof of unnecessary EU bureaucracy.
Then blaming all those who fail to take advantage of the possibilities of this brexit 'brave new world'.
Then blame Covid, anybody, aliens from out of space etc
Then ultimately claim that they did their best but blame the electorate for having pressed for the unobtainable. The buck will stop with those who voted for it!

 

[doctor Bob]

It's called "confirmation bias" but it doesn't alter the truth of whether or not a decision was a good one.
If/when things don't turn out as forecast there'll also be a massive blame game. Farage/Johnson will blame everybody starting with the EU itself; the complexity of new deals will be seen as self justifying proof of unnecessary EU bureaucracy.
Then blaming all those who fail to take advantage of the possibilities of this brexit 'brave new world'.
Then blame Covid, anybody, aliens from out of space etc
Then ultimately claim that they did their best but blame the electorate for having pressed for the unobtainable. The buck will stop with those who voted for it!

Surely you have just done the same thing "confirmation bias". You could have said, if / when it all goes right the remainers will have a massive blame game ...........................
Just saying, no one gives ground as stated previously

 

[julianf]

Surely you have just done the same thing "confirmation bias". You could have said, if / when it all goes right the remainers will have a massive blame game ...........................
Just saying, no one gives ground as stated previously

As i think i said before, aside from all of that, no one can deny the benefit of the NHS getting £350m a week extra, from yesterday.
I mean, what with covid and that, it couldn't have come at a better time.


I mean there are mistakes, and then there is downright lack of integrity. I think its good to remember that?

 

[doctor Bob]

As i think i said before, aside from all of that, no one can deny the benefit of the NHS getting £350m a week extra, from yesterday.
I mean, what with covid and that, it couldn't have come at a better time.


I mean there are mistakes, and then there is downright lack of integrity. I think its good to remember that?

See............ I'm not even trying to argue any point. I am merely adressing internet arguements and the bias on both sides. But it's impossible. People need to realise that the internet forums are re-enforcements of arguement / debate by others with similar views, usually dominated by the majority of like minded posters.

 

[billw]

And we're paying the settlement bill to the EU until 2064.

 

[Jacob]

Surely you have just done the same thing "confirmation bias". You could have said, if / when it all goes right the remainers will have a massive blame game ...........................
Just saying, no one gives ground as stated previously

I did say "if" but I do think it'll be "when".
On the other hand the lefties think that it could be good - if they ever get into power they won't be tied to the EU and will be able to renationalise everything including the ground under your feet! Sounds good to me!

 

[billw]

See............ I'm not even trying to argue any point. I am merely adressing internet arguements and the bias on both sides. But it's impossible. People need to realise that the internet forums are re-enforcements of arguement / debate by others with similar views, usually dominated by the majority of like minded posters.

Yes, this has become quite a concerning issue in recent times. Echo chambers and polarisation are becoming problematic because people don't even need to accept there's another point of view to theirs any more, they just block it or disconnect from those who disagree.

It's even within groups these days, one of my football supporting friends was banned from posting in a facebook group last night because the admin objected to his view about a player's performance. Totally bonkers.

I don't even want to think where it could all lead.

 

[julianf]

See............ I'm not even trying to argue any point. I am merely adressing internet arguements and the bias on both sides. But it's impossible. People need to realise that the internet forums are re-enforcements of arguement / debate by others with similar views, usually dominated by the majority of like minded posters.

I, personally, think the acceptance and glossing over (which is kind of what you are doing now, implying a downright and indisputable lie as "confirmation bias") is a serious problem.

Again, there are many grey areas to the brexit thing which will be examples of confirmation bias (remember, it was my own post a few further up which bought up the topic).

But, painting something on the side of a bus which just isnt true in order to manipulate the public isn't "Oooh, he mis-spoke", or "confirmation bias", or whatever.

Its a factual lie. And that shouldn't be acceptable, nor should it be glossed over in any way whatsoever.

 

[Rorschach]

I live in France and moved here because I was not wealthy like many of my friends. I here this argument so many times but we are not all Stanley Johnson!

You are not really what I referring to. You live there, I was talking about people with second homes etc.

 

[Awac]

You are not really what I referring to. You live there, I was talking about people with second homes etc.

And people who can afford second homes are probably the least effected by leaving the EU.

 

[billw]

But, painting something on the side of a bus which just isnt true in order to manipulate the public isn't "Oooh, he mis-spoke", or "confirmation bias", or whatever.

Its a factual lie. And that shouldn't be acceptable, nor should it be glossed over in any way whatsoever.

It's not confirmation bias itself though, it's used by people AS confirmation bias. Officials said it was a "misuse of official statistics" rather than a lie.

However don't all politicians just say whatever people want to hear when there's a vote on something? And we're surprised that the Brexiteers said stuff that made Brexit sound good? Did they care it was misleading? I doubt it.

 

[Rorschach]

And people who can afford second homes are probably the least effected by leaving the EU.

I dunno, they made a big fuss about it. The easiest way to predict whether someone is Leave or Remain is by how much money they have.

 

[doctor Bob]

I dunno, they made a big fuss about it. The easiest way to predict whether someone is Leave or Remain is by how much money they have.

I think it easier to predict on personality.............