Best dovetail saw

[bugbear]

Rob Cosman. As in the OP.

So that's "Rob Cosmans video on dovetail joints the saws he reccomends come with a hefty price tag"? Never heard of him.

That's "odd". You've posted (negatively) about him in the past.

BugBear

 

[Tierney]

...
I to have been thinking about a new dt saw, I'll either go japanese or veritas, Im leaning toward veritas as it's the style I prefer with saws.

It's all down to the last sharpening - the saw itself makes very little difference (within reason). Old S&J, Footprint, etc are as good as anything and cheap cos not fashionable.

As far a dt jigs go they do me any justice maybe I can't use them correctly ...

Not sure what DT jig you are talking about but I'm sure you'd be better off if without it. Just bin it, you don't need one. A lot of gadgets make things more difficult, not less.
PS who is Rob?

Rob is Rob Cosman. I saw him in action a couple of years ago at the festival of wood and he made it look so simple. He said that he used to practice every day. He didn't use a guide. I guess it's muscle memory.

I sharpened a saw for the first time yesterday after watching workshop heaven's YouTube video and it was pretty straightforward.

DT

 

[Berncarpenter]

I've not seen the Lie-Nielsen thin-plate dovetail saw mentioned yet. Mine seems to work really well and I get quite reasonable result. For me, it is very comfortable to hold and the thin plate and little set make it a joy to use =)

See if you can try out some of the different saws somewhere? It is a bit more expensive than a veritas for example but I would buy it again in a heartbeat.

Regards,
Frank

Hi Frank
The Lie-Nielson saw that i mentioned earlier is the same thin plate saw you have. Today i was lucky enough to try out the Peter Sefton inspired dt saw at his open day , another beautiful tool but it doesnt have the same feel as the Lie-Nielson .

Cheers Bern

 

[Corneel]

The LV saw is perfectly allright, and also not unimportant for a beginner, doesn't need fettling or sharpening. You can cut an awfull lot of dovetails before it needs to be sharpened.

You have to learn sharpening them one day, but it doesn't need to be immediately when you buy a new saw.

 

[undergroundhunter]

I have just received (last week) a pax 1776 10" 15 tpi dovetail saw from Peter Sefton's woodworkersworkshop.co.uk it's fantastic. Peter and myself exchanged many facebook messages regarding my saw purchase, with Peter giving some very good advice. If you Google "peter Sefton dovetail saw review" it's the top link to a pdf. I highly recommend you have a read before placing an order. Also in an ideal world it would be better if you could try before you buy as saw handles are like a pair of boots, they need to be comfortable. Depending on your location you more than welcome to come and try my saws for size.

matt

 

[Jacob]

There's nothing particularly thin about the LN DT saw. At 0.5mm it's the same as my cheapo S&J DTs.
0.5mm seems to be normal*, Footprint ditto. Given the same sharpening the performance will be identical.
It seems that LN sharpening can't be relied upon troubleshooting-a-hand-panel-saw-t81835.html which is astonishing as it is the one thing they need to get right, bearing in mind they are sold mainly to beginners and are bloody expensive.

PS for comparison, 2 classy old saws; 14" S&J tenon saw at 0.8mm, 24" Sorby hand saw 0.9mm

 

[MIGNAL]

Most DT saws are 0.5 mm gauge, some 0.6 mm's. The LN thin plate is 0.4 mm's.
If you are after thin kerf you won't beat the model makers saw that I linked to earlier. That, the odd razor type saw and some of the Japanese saws give a very thin kerf. The steel in these are more like 0.3 mm with hardly any set.

 

[bugbear]

http://paulsellers.com/2011/08/looking- ... y-veritas/

!!

BugBear

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have just received (last week) a pax 1776 10" 15 tpi dovetail saw from Peter Sefton's woodworkersworkshop.co.uk it's fantastic. Peter and myself exchanged many facebook messages regarding my saw purchase, with Peter giving some very good advice. If you Google "peter Sefton dovetail saw review" it's the top link to a pdf. I highly recommend you have a read before placing an order. Also in an ideal world it would be better if you could try before you buy as saw handles are like a pair of boots, they need to be comfortable. Depending on your location you more than welcome to come and try my saws for size.

matt

Matt
Good to hear the saw suits you you are right about trying tools first if possible, I always try to advice people on what I believe might best suit their needs but it impossible to guess what might fit somebody else's hand.

It was good to catch up with Bern yesterday who had a good play with the Pax although the LN is still his favourite. The only way to find out is to try them out for yourself. On the short courses we run we get people to try out the range we stock and some we don't and they as on here will choose which ever suits them and their needs. We find this is the best way to try them out because you can try one and then try another straight away. It is very difficult to test a saw and then compare it two months later in a different venue with another saw.

Cheers Peter

 

[frankederveen]

Most DT saws are 0.5 mm gauge, some 0.6 mm's. The LN thin plate is 0.4 mm's.

The .020" plate on the 'standard' LN dovetail saw is 33% thicker than the .015" one which does make a difference I think. However, I just had a look at the LN website and can't see the thin-plate version anymore. If it has been discontinued then there is little point in recommending it.

The only important thing is if you like your saw or not. I happen to like mine and wanted to offer it up as an option =)

Probably best not to go in to sharpening here as that usually ends very poorly

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have just received (last week) a pax 1776 10" 15 tpi dovetail saw from Peter Sefton's woodworkersworkshop.co.uk it's fantastic. Peter and myself exchanged many facebook messages regarding my saw purchase, with Peter giving some very good advice. If you Google "peter Sefton dovetail saw review" it's the top link to a pdf. I highly recommend you have a read before placing an order. Also in an ideal world it would be better if you could try before you buy as saw handles are like a pair of boots, they need to be comfortable. Depending on your location you more than welcome to come and try my saws for size.

matt

Matt
Good to hear the saw suits you you are right about trying tools first if possible, I always try to advice people on what I believe might best suit their needs but it impossible to guess what might fit somebody else's hand.

It was good to catch up with Bern yesterday who had a good play with the Pax although the LN is still his favourite. The only way to find out is to try them out for yourself. On the short courses we run we get people to try out the range we stock and some we don't and they as on here will choose which ever suits them and their needs. We find this is the best way to try them out because you can try one and then try another straight away. It is very difficult to test a saw and then compare it two months later in a different venue with another saw.

Cheers Peter

Oh boy, the Thomas Flinn/Pax 1776 saws are getting mentioned on a forum! Next thing you know, they'll be mentioned in the American woodworking magazines and by some talking heads, with prices tripling and otherwise going through the roof!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Jacob's comment is partially correct - a dovetail saw will dull eventually and then needs to be sharpened. At this point it may be in the same category as a vintage saw. However this is not a full reflection of a reason to buy new.

If one is starting out, sharpening is a skill that is yet to be developed. Purchasing a saw that is ready to go makes a lot of sense. Many new saws come sharp, but what can separate a cheap saw from a decent, middle-of-the-range saw is the way the teeth are set. Too much set and the blade will rattle around in the kerf and run off course. Beginners will not be able to correct for this.

The cheapest new saw that provided me with good performance is the 10" Crown gent saw, which has a straight handle. However I would recommend a pistol grip as this is easier to align and push. The best medium-price dovetail saw is the LV, by the proverbial mile. Get the 14 tpi. This has a wider range than the 20 tpi. The LV also has a gentle rake to the teeth, which makes it easy to start. Nice balance and comfortable handle.

My go-to dovetail saws are the LN Independence and the Gramercy. The LN is not a good saw for a beginner as the teeth have zero rake, which makes the saw harder to start (but powerful in use). The Gramercy is a little "different" from the others with a higher-than-typical hang to the handle, which requires a particularly light touch, something that a beginner takes time to develop. Go with the LV.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[DannyJH]

As with any well made saw, there is a tipping point over performance. Once they are sharp and you are happy with the set, it just comes down to the user's preference with how it feels balanced in the hand. Then with a few hours use you should be able to cut to any line as accurate as your skill allows.

I own a Pax for example and and cut just as well, or as bad, as with the Adria, that i prefer, that i use at work

 

[MIGNAL]

It's not just user preference though. A lot of it is technique and technique that isn't difficult to learn. Just a bit of time experimenting and practice. Some people seem to take an immediate dislike to the Gents/Japanese saw (broom stick) type handle. That's it, every time they see a saw with a broom stick handle they avoid like it's riddled with a contagious disease. In reality it's just a fairly simple matter of adapting to the new grip. Once learned (not that it takes much!!) it's there for life.

 

[Harbo]

My experience with a Crown saw is completely different.
I bought a 22TPI Dovetail one which came with a really crappy stained beech? handle.
This was soon rectified with a new one but the cutting performance is so slow with that number of teeth, that I very rarely use it.
And sharpening is a nightmare!

Rod

 

[Harbo]

My favourite western saws are my two Gramercys that I bought it kit form:
Gramercys with two Wenzloffs

But the saws I tend to use most are my Japanese including a Sunchild.

Rod

 

[MIGNAL]

I've sharpened 26 TPI (Zona saw) by simply filing straight across with a needle file, not even turning the saw around. You should be able to do that at least 3 or 4 times before things start to get too uneven.

 

[G S Haydon]

The LV saw is perfectly allright, and also not unimportant for a beginner, doesn't need fettling or sharpening. You can cut an awfull lot of dovetails before it needs to be sharpened.

You have to learn sharpening them one day, but it doesn't need to be immediately when you buy a new saw.

A very important consideration for any newb. Otherwise a non sexy S&J would be just fine. I bought a cheap Zona but not had the chance to try it out yet.

 

[bugbear]

The LV saw is perfectly allright, and also not unimportant for a beginner, doesn't need fettling or sharpening. You can cut an awfull lot of dovetails before it needs to be sharpened.

You have to learn sharpening them one day, but it doesn't need to be immediately when you buy a new saw.

A very important consideration for any newb. Otherwise a non sexy S&J would be just fine.

Yeah - otherwise you'd have to learnt how to sharpen saws before you cut your first dovetail, which might be considered a "bit of an overhead".

BugBear

 

[jimi43]

If Rod's bringing out the saw porn...I think it should be ok to show the best saw I've ever seen and used...

Ok...back to regular programming! :mrgreen:

Jimi