Bench vices for Hand Tool Woodworking

[Bodgers]

Slowly but surely I am getting towards building my first 'proper' bench. I'm definitely not entitled to my 'woodworker' card planing with the new ECE planes on my Black and Decker workmate.

I'm basically building the Hayward style bench.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/23/55/77/2355 ... enches.jpg

I had originally planned to build a leg vice using a scaffold screw and a linear bearing and shaft of the base guide.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/11/77/3411 ... de6715.jpg

But the original design in Hayward's "How to Make Woodworking Tools" book shows the classic quick release metal jawed woodworking vice favoured by Sir Paul.

I would really like the back jaw flush with the apron, which I suppose I could do.

But what is actually more affective? A self made leg, nicholson, twin screw etc. Or a off the shelf metal jawed vice?

What got me doubting was GS Haydon's blog where he mentioned his self made Nicholson vice was inferior to his production workshop's quick release vices. (What's happened to his YouTube videos?)

http://www.gshaydon.co.uk/blog/how-did-i-build-the-vice

There are also these types of QR vices that don't have metal jaws I'm leaning toward:

https://www.fine-tools.com/spindel.html#ziel300651

 

[AndyT]

I think it's one of those things that really comes down to personal preference (which includes how long you want to spend building it and how much you are prepared to spend).

I can sort of date the start of my 'proper woodworking' rather than diy, to the time when I got hold of a Record 52½ quick release vice and installed it on my bench. It copes with just about everything I need to hold, unless it's something which belongs on the top of the bench, where the holdfasts take over.

One of its many good features is the depth of grip - enough to work on drawers and many boxes.

I put mine with the back jaw let in to the front of the bench, with some wood facing over the rear steel jaw. That's not what Paul Sellers does. I respect his work and his methods - which obviously work well for him - but am too set in my ways to want to copy the way he holds wood in his vice for almost everything, even with it sloping at an angle when he needs to saw the end straight.

I was lucky enough to find an old vice in good nick for a very reasonable price, which helps me feel good about my decision. The German vice kits look interesting but are much more than I paid.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There's no reason to have any metal exposed on a Record. This is set down so the top can be lipped and back so the inside jaw is very near flush but replaceable.

 

[DTR]

I agree with Andy, it's a preference thing. I started with a Record vice, and later made my own leg vice just because I fancied one. The leg vice does have certain advantages, such as no guide bars to get in the way. That allows you to put long stuff right up next to the screw without causing the vice to rack (wrack?). Another advantage is that the whole chop (front jaw) can be easily unscrewed to leave the front of the bench unobstructed. That's handy if you need to work on the edge of something big like a door.

Conversely, a Record vice probably has its own advantages. Either way, I do recommend making the rear jaw flush with the apron. It makes some clamping operations a lot simpler.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think every vice design and arrangement has it's advantages and disadvantages, so there's no 'right' answer - we'd all use the same if there were! Just install one that appeals to you, and get used to enjoying it's strengths and working around it's weaknesses.

If you do go for a Record-type metal vice, I've found that the 7" I bought years ago has done all I could have asked of it; I haven't really missed the larger capacity of a 9" or 10 1/2". Mine has the metal dog on the front, which I've never used, but it is a QR version, which I do use - a lot!

(By the way - Graham's still about, but found that his video-making was rather interfering with his business and family responsibilities, so made the decision to scale back. A loss for us, but entirely understandable.)

 

[AndyT]

Here's a pic of mine

I like having the wooden linings quite long, as it means I can hold a vertical board, stood to one side of the vice screw and guide rods, with enough wood to grip it.

If that makes a racking problem, I have a pack of offcuts of plywood and thick card, bolted at one corner and free to swivel on the bolt. I can select enough of the pack to equal the thickness of the wood being held, and place it at the opposite side of the vice. I learned the idea from one of Alf's posts on here years ago. I'll post a picture if I can find one. Someone else showed the same thing recently but I can't think who it was.

 

[Jacob]

Record QR vice is absolutely essential and much more useful than any of the alternatives.
By all means fiddle about and make a quaint wooden leg vice but get a Record first, then you probably won't feel the need for anything else.

..... there's no 'right' answer - we'd all use the same if there were! ......

The right answer is Record QR 52 1/2 (various options). That is why almost everybody uses them.

 

[Bodgers]

Thanks for the responses and photos - much appreciated. I suppose what I was really driving at was, are the Record type metal vices functionally better? Which you've answered.

Jacob, your amusing response is the one I suspected, in that the self made leg/Nicholson etc type vices are done by the hipsters for purely aesthetic/'tradition for traction sake' reasons over actual practically.

I don't think almost everybody uses them btw - at least from the blogs and YouTube stuff I see. Lots of self build leg vices, twin screws, moxons, shoulder vices etc... typically Americans that have read the Chris Schwarz book maybe...

I won't lie to myself, aesthetics is a part of the decision, but I'm definitely not comprising on function.



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[Racers]

If that makes a racking problem, I have a pack of offcuts of plywood and thick card, bolted at one corner and free to swivel on the bolt. I can select enough of the pack to equal the thickness of the wood being held, and place it at the opposite side of the vice. I learned the idea from one of Alf's posts on here years ago. I'll post a picture if I can find one. Someone else showed the same thing recently but I can't think who it was.

Was it me?

Triming feathers by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[DTR]

Jacob, your amusing response is the one I suspected, in that the self made leg/Nicholson etc type vices are done by the hipsters for purely aesthetic/'tradition for traction sake' reasons over actual practically.

There's two ways to do anything; Jacob's way and the wrong way :lol:

 

[nabs]

ha ha! hard to argue with him on this one though - the 52 1/2 is a classic design and as far as I'm concerned has never been bettered. There is a reason there are so many of them about still, and that is because they are very good which meant many were purchased and most survived ...

 

[Jacob]

.......
I don't think almost everybody uses them btw - at least from the blogs and YouTube stuff I see. Lots of self build leg vices, twin screws, moxons, shoulder vices etc... typically Americans that have read the Chris Schwarz book maybe...

The trendy alternatives just get more attention. There isn't much to say or discuss about the Records

I won't lie to myself, aesthetics is a part of the decision, .....

You could paint it? Or cover it with
woodgrain Fablon ?

 

[Racers]

Jacob, your amusing response is the one I suspected, in that the self made leg/Nicholson etc type vices are done by the hipsters for purely aesthetic/'tradition for traction sake' reasons over actual practically.

There's two ways to do anything; Jacob's way and the wrong way :lol:

Here, that's my quote!

:wink:

Pete

 

[DTR]

There's two ways to do anything; Jacob's way and the wrong way :lol:

Here, that's my quote!

:wink:

Pete

I thought it sounded a bit too clever to be one of mine :lol:

 

[Bodgers]

I think every vice design and arrangement has it's advantages and disadvantages, so there's no 'right' answer - we'd all use the same if there were! Just install one that appeals to you, and get used to enjoying it's strengths and working around it's weaknesses.

If you do go for a Record-type metal vice, I've found that the 7" I bought years ago has done all I could have asked of it; I haven't really missed the larger capacity of a 9" or 10 1/2". Mine has the metal dog on the front, which I've never used, but it is a QR version, which I do use - a lot!

(By the way - Graham's still about, but found that his video-making was rather interfering with his business and family responsibilities, so made the decision to scale back. A loss for us, but entirely understandable.)

A real shame about the videos. I never got to see them. The articles that reference them are great...maybe if it's the comments he doesn't like dealing with, they could be republished with comments turned off? Or just delisted and referenced from he blog only?



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[AndyT]

If that makes a racking problem, I have a pack of offcuts of plywood and thick card, bolted at one corner and free to swivel on the bolt. I can select enough of the pack to equal the thickness of the wood being held, and place it at the opposite side of the vice. I learned the idea from one of Alf's posts on here years ago. I'll post a picture if I can find one. Someone else showed the same thing recently but I can't think who it was.

Was it me?

Triming feathers by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

Yes it was!

Thanks Pete. Well worth making.

 

[MusicMan]

After decades of having a vice inset to the bench, I saw some solutions where the back jaw is proud of the bench (Paul Sellers, one of Steve Maskery's videos). So I tried it with a bit taped on and liked it a lot for ease of holding something when you put it in the vice. So then I went fancy. The vice is a Paramo.

I've had it in use a bit over a year now, and wouldn't go back to the flush arrangement. Like Andy, I also like a long jaw to hold awkward things.

Keith

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What is the benefit? I can't see any.

 

[powertools]

The vice you need very much depends on the layout of your workshop and the type of work you do.
I have 2 record vices fixed to my bench but they never seem to be in the right place for many jobs. I also have 4 Zyliss vices that with modifications l have made are far and away my most used tools for any holding or clamping operations that I do.

 

[G S Haydon]

Bodgers, you've had some solid ad"vice" 8)

I still stand by my experience that as an all rounder, the QR is the best. We've recently made a workbench, no photos on our website yet but you can find some photos on our facebook page https://www.facebook.com/GSHaydon

In reference to back jaws flush vs projecting , it is simply down to preference. The most pleasing thing I see in the photos of people set up is the time taken to cover the metal parts. The only thing I differ on regards preparing the vice compared to most others is not having such wide overhanging wooden jaws. I feel it puts strain on the vice and reduces how effective the clamping is. However! Clearly the people who do are happy with it and it's easy to try.

I was glad of a projecting vice jaw the other weekend when I was making a table with a friend. I was preparing some 3400mm x 350mm x 44mm sections of ash for glue up (it's going to be a monster table) and having the projecting jaw meant I could get my hands around the vice much easier. But, don't overthink this stuff, if something like a vice jaw doesn't work for you change it.

In regard my videos, blogging etc, I gave it a break due to health reasons. I started to have tonic-clonic seizures in early 2016 and although better, I had another in October last year. Trying to put out good content takes time and although it was fun, I had to draw a line under it and focus on the things that really matter. My family, job and me.

My broad advice is don't overthink and read too much. Get to it and have some fun.