Beginner after some Plane Advice

[MattR]

Hi all.
I have a #5 bench plane that I have been trying to set up and use, mostly via youtube videos.

Its a New plane, and after some trial and error I managed to take it apart check the blade for sharpness (it leaves a scratch on my thumbnail without any real pressure so I assume it is) and put it back together again.

I have adjusted it so that I can plane down each side to try and get the wood shavings even. (If any of this is wrong, or pointless, then apologies. Theres a million and one you tube videos, all slightly different!)

All of that seemed ok, so I decided to just practice planing a piece of pine I had. the Pine is an old shelf, so it has already been through a planing machine, and is relatively smooth.

I am working on an old Black and Decker Work mate, with the wood clamped tight, though it is at a fairly low height.

When I plane, most of the time I get nothing (as I'd expect as its already a finished piece of wood), though now and then it does its job and produces some wood shavings. But at certain points, I can go from nothign, to the plane coming to a dead stop, and when I lift it off, it has left a blade mark in the wood.

So after all that background, (and I know that this may be a vague question), is this abrupt stop / damage on the wood likely to be down to my technique, the way I have the plane set up, or even the environment I am working in?

I want to be able to try and make something, but must admit that at the moment I am a bit annoyed that I can't even master one of the basic techniques on a flat piece of wood!

 

[mouppe]

Hmmm hard to guess could be several things.

I would check to see if the sole is flat. Maybe the blade isn't contacting the wood? Also I would clamp a piece of wood and plane the edge to see what happens. This is easier than planing the face and will help you see where the blade is cutting and where it isn't by moving the plane gradually from side to side as you move forward.
And I would check again to see if the blade is sharp and whether it is straight, cambered or even hollowed on its edge (unlikely but remotely possible).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Even experienced people struggle to plane anything properly/accurately on a Workmate. If you are going to do anything serious, you'll need to find something firmer. That's probably as much of your problem as anything wrong with the actual plane is.

 

[Adam9453]

have you checked the piece of wood you're trying to plane for flatness not smoothness?

It may be smooth but not flat and as such you'll be missing the hollows and running into the high points.

Get a straightedge (something that you know to be straight) and rest it on the piece of wood and look to see if there are any gaps under the straight edge. This will tell you if the wood is flat or not.

If you haven't used a plane before then it may be a technique / cutting depth issue.

Regarding technique;
I would always twist the plane slightly so you're slicing the wood rather than trying to plane it straight on so to speak. This should make it easier to plane as the plane blade is at a slight angle to the cutting direction.

Regarding cutting depth;
I would suggest raising the blade until it does not take anything off the wood and check this by trying multiple passes on different areas of the wood. Then lower the blade a fraction at a time until you get just the slightest of shavings. This should then make life easier again. A lot of people try to plane too much off in one pass and end up effectively just bashing the plane blade into a high spot and coming to a dead stop (like you mention).

I also wouldn't be surprised if trying to do it on a workmate is also making life very difficult for you as the workmate is too light to hold the wood firmly and not move at all. For planing wood, you really want a nice solid lump of something to clamp your wood to so that it cannot move at all.

Hope that helps and don't be disheartened, everyone has to start from the beginning and before you know it, you'll be covering the floor in paper thin shavings like a pro. 8)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Rereading your post - you didn't do yourself any favours buying a new plane (I assume it's not a Clifton or a QS or something), but you probably won't do it again in a hurry.

 

[MattR]

Wow, lots of things to consider straight away.

mouppe - I checked the sole and the blade, that was mentioned on youtube.

Adam9453 It was an old shelf, but you are right, maybe I shouldnt have assumed, theres flat and theres flat I guess.
By Twist the plane, I asume that you mean plane across the face at an angle, i.e. dont plane North to South, but just off North to South. Or do you mean put the plane on the surface at a slight angle, but still work in the North to South Direction?
I'll look at the blade and make sure it is raised all the way, like you suggested.
I'll also look to see if I have a more solid surface I can clamp to. though that may well (for now) mean me using a G Clamp onto a different surface, rather than the basic clamp tha tthe work bench offers. the only other surface I have is about a foot taller than the work-mate, so time will tell if thats a help or a hindrance.

Rereading your post - you didn't do yourself any favours buying a new plane (I assume it's not a Clifton or a QS or something), but you probably won't do it again in a hurry.

Is this because new planes these days have a bad reputation, or just that new planes need a lot of setting up?

thanks for the help so far, its not in my nature to give up, however I guess basic optimism led me to believing that this would be easier than I have found it. But then, if things were really that easy, there'd be no real value in doing them I guess

 

[Adam9453]

I'll explain a little further, if you imagine you are planing an edge of a board which is clamped vertically in a vice (so the thin edge of the board is facing the sky).

Then put your plane down onto the edge of the board.

Now you twist your plane slightly (pivoting the plane where the blade is) and then run your plane along the board edge from one end to the other, its this slight twist than means the blade is slicing rather than butting into the piece of wood.

I hope that has made it clearer and not confused things further.

If it has, then let me know and i'll draw a diagram illustrating what I mean.

 

[MattR]

Think I have it. I'll try when I get some free time and let you know how I get on

 

[Phil Pascoe]

New planes tend to badly made, and therefore need a lot of TLC to get the best from them. I believe that standards went down from about 1970, Stanley a bit before Record, although nearly all planes need a little work.

 

[MattR]

Im not sure what I can do about that until I have some more experience. (Hence my question)), at preent I have no idea if its me, the tools, my work space or the materiel :-/

 

[Adam9453]

As you mentioned earlier, unless you spend a few hundred on a lovely lie nielsen or clifton plane then i'd go for old every time over new chiwanese rubbish

 

[lanemaux]

Not to sound condescending , but , planing the face of a pine shelf can make reading the grain difficult. It is possible that you are encountering some grain reversal here and there.It would be hard to spot if the pine is very smooth as the grain is fairly neutral in colour in some pine I've used. And planing against the grain is like stroking a cat the wrong way, pointless and annoys the cat.

 

[MattR]

Its not condescending (to me anyway). I used the shelf as I had it to hand, and the only other piece of wood I have is a piece I want to try and make something from (just a basic coat rack using tenon joints / pegs). Seemed a good place to start to get some basic skills under my belt.

I will try planing from the other direction though, in case I am going in the wrong direction.

 

[lanemaux]

Like most things in life it may not be that simple. If the grain runs the same throughout your board , that would be ideal and once grain direction was established you could rely on it all along the face. In reality , wood just is not like that as often as we would like. A lot of pine shows cathedral grain patterns (waves that come to a point) , circles of grain pattern and knots (2 different things there) and as white as it sometimes is pine can be a tough read. Well, until you try to go against it anyway. Look closely at the spots you are digging into and if the grain is going further into your shelf right there but was going up and away from before that point , then it has reversed on you.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I would definitely not include Quangsheng in the "Chaiwanese rubbish" category and it's certainly not as pant-wettingly expensive as LN/Veritas/Clifton. If you go about it correctly you can tune even one of these: http://www.diy.com/departments/bq-smoot ... 596_BQ.prd to give perfectly good results (almost good enough to wonder why you might want to pay more than £20 for a plane, especially as you can get nice old stanley/record etc. planes at carboots/ebay etc. for less).

If you're learning from YouTube (as I mostly did) I'd try and stick with one person's advice e.g. Paul Sellers, while reading others as a comparison - help to avoid confusion by mixing sources of advice until you feel more confident.

I agree with the points that have already been made: 1 - the sole may not be flat (esp. near the mouth - I use a piece of 320 grit wet and dry paper on an offcut of marble kitchen workstop to flatten); and 2 - the grain of your piece of pine may be more challenging than you imagined (have you tried attacking it from different angles?).

What make of plane is it, and what steps have you already taken to tune it up?

Cheers, W2S

PS I also agree that a WorkMate is far from ideal - if you're right handed try putting your left foot on the bottom to stop the whole thing lifting up - a firmly pushed, sharp, No. 5 should be difficult for a piece of pine (even with knots) to stop. Try backing off (i.e. retracting) the blade a little - this will only work reliably if the sole's flat - and give it some welly!

 

[tomasg]

You'll really need to make a bench
The only real planing you can do on a workmate is edge planing short boards while your actually standing on the thing. (hammer)

Find say a fire door or some really FLAT composite material surface
this will be your reference .. and sit this flat top on a level frame
I built the frame mostly from old square fence posts
figured out the height i wanted spirit level on long 2x4s struck a line against the wall
this is the simplest method otherwise make a heavier bench for butting against the wall
provided your floor is flat this may or may not change design
Good luck

 

[MattR]

Thanks. Its a tricky one, as I have a limited budget each month to spend on this, so I need to work with what I have until I can justify spending more on other tools or accessories like a bench.

I'll try with the plane on an edge piece of wood, at least then I can eliminate the equipment if that all works well. And then maybe switch to trying something different other than planing for now (at least until I can get something a little more substantial to plane on).

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi all.
I have a #5 bench plane that I have been trying to set up and use, mostly via youtube videos.

Its a New plane, and after some trial and error I managed to take it apart check the blade for sharpness (it leaves a scratch on my thumbnail without any real pressure so I assume it is) and put it back together again.

Hello Matt, and welcome to the forum!

I suspect that the line from your original post that I've quoted above may hold part of the key. Unless I've misinterpreted (which is quite possible!) you've taken the new plane out of the box, taken the cutting iron out and checked whether it's sharp, then put the plane back together.

Unfortunately, a new plane iron is not yet sharp enough for work. The manufacturers grind them to shape, but don't do the final honing; that's the job of the new owner. Trying to get the plane to cut without a honed edge to the iron will result in the sort of digging-in and stopping that you've experienced. Manufacturers don't hone irons because an edge needs rehoning fairly often (about half-an-hour's planing in mild pine will dull an edge, in harder woods edge life is much less), so unfortunately it's something you'll have to get to grips with immediately.

If you don't mind my making a suggestion, buying a copy of 'The Essential Woodworker' by Robert Wearing would be a good plan. The first chapter of the book leads you through the basics of sharpening a plane-iron, setting up the plane, and using it to square-up a piece of timber. You can get a copy here - https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... Press.html - scroll down the page to near the bottom. Unfortunately, the book isn't available through Amazon (Lost Art Press won't deal with them), but you may be able to find a secondhand copy of the original edition through Abebooks or similar. There's plenty more in the book of use to the beginner, as well.

Don't worry that things seem complicated at the moment - it may take a while, but you'll get there, and of course we'll try to answer any other questions.

 

[MattR]

Thanks all. I won't be able to tray any of your advice until Sunday afternoon, so I'll try and remember it all, and will feedback next week, to see how I can refine things, if I still have issues

 

[MattR]

Thanks for al the advice so far. I took the plane apart again, resharpened it and adjusted it, and its workign much better now. though I do spend some time chasing the work mate round the floor :$

The only other table I have there is an old rickety, splintered potting table, but I'll make a bit more of that in a post in teh general forum, before this goes off topic