Baby Wadkin Bursgreen in California: Advice on an AGS10

[KT_NorCal]

The cant shaft is fully apart and I cleaned up the burrs from where the meathead at the factory tried to hammer the roll pin though the solid bar. The shaft itself doesn't seem to be bent... its not perfectly flat, but its close enough.

Cleaned up the burrs on the various stops as well. Interestingly the outer rear one and the one with the grub screw were both cold blued. I'll re-blue them as I think they look nice. The citric acid dip tends to ruin the bluing. Seems like an interesting thing for the factory to do. They had rust on them, but a lot less than the unblued one, so hey it helped a bit.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Also, here is some pretty good evidence that the idea of using pin spanners (i.e. steel rods in this case) to lock the arbor is not the best idea. I was taking measurements of the arbor before I brought it over to a friend's to get the bearings and whatnot off and I could see that the back of the blade flange was actually distorted behind one of these holes. Flipped it over and ran an indicator on it and at both those points the outer part of that flange is 5 tho out of whack to the rest of it... will definitely have to skim this on the lathe... annoying.

 

[deema]

The condition of your spindle face is in my experience the norm rather than the exception. I have to refinish every single spindle

 

[KT_NorCal]

The condition of your spindle face is in my experience the norm rather than the exception. I have to refinish every single spindle

It's a bummer, but I was going to make a custom outer flange for 12" blades anyway, so I might as well plan on spending quality time on the whole spindle.... Also, the dado nut is similarly bunged up, so I'm going to assume I'll need to skim that as well.

Just to make work for myself and given the extra space on the arbor, I'm thinking of putting a heavier duty front bearing on as well, so I need to deal with the crap machining on the front of the cast iron arbor housing as well. That way I will know exactly how much room I have to work with.

The other resto-mod will be swapping the triple belt pulley sheaves out for continuous ribbed belt ones. They are about 100x smoother than v belts and won't take a set. Will also give me a chance to up the RPM of the spindle from the 3400rpm it's running at now.

Making work for yourself is always a good way to get though a project.

 

[deema]

That will certainly make it a super saw. Will be following with interest how you get along.

 

[Vann]

Hi Vann,
You wouldn't happen to have any extra this size would you?...

Hi KT. Sorry, just got back from holiday. Could you advise: OD, ID and thickness please and I'll have a look through my bits and pieces.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Hi KT. Sorry, just got back from holiday. Could you advise: OD, ID and thickness please and I'll have a look through my bits and pieces.

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann,
I was mostly just moaning, but if you actually had a spare or so I don't think I would turn it down! I measured it and in true WB weirdness, it's meant to go over the 10-1.25 threaded handwheel shafts and therefore has an ID of 10.3mm (or close... my calipers aren't spectacular), but it has an imperial OD of 1.240 inches and imperial thickness of exactly 1/8 or 0.1275 inches.... go figure.

 

[deema]

Hey Deema - just an FYI - the flange being machined from a solid piece was not my experience when taking apart my spindle housing.
I managed to actually remove the the flange by using a bearing puller. This wasn’t my intention, I was tired andwasn’t thinking and had set up my operation in reverse. I don’t unfortunately have any pics of the evidence, but warmed the flange and put the shaft in the freezer to reassemble.

Gremmy, you are absolutely right, I tried one today, and it did indeed come off. Really appreciated the heads up.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Gremmy, you are absolutely right, I tried one today, and it did indeed come off. Really appreciated the heads up.

I assume you pressed it off over the front of the arbor?

 

[deema]

I assume you pressed it off over the front of the arbor?

Yes, it was a very tight interference fit.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Yes, it was a very tight interference fit.

Good to know. I'm going to leave it on since I need to true up the face, but if the arbor is out at all and I need to bash it back into true at least I know it will come off. Took the measurment to the face of from the front to the end of the arbor so at least I would know how far to press it back on.

 

[Gremmy]

HI Gremmy,
Do you have any close-up pictures of the riving knife "hub" that goes around the arbor housing? Especially how it is retained on there. My arbor housing has that groove (in one of the above pictures) that I assumed took some kind of a retaining clip, but on yours it looks like it is covered up...
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

sorry about the delayed response.. I didn’t get any notification that you’d asked me anything, have played around with my settings and now receive updates.

regarding my spindle housing, it didn’t have a recessed groove, just plain- see photo, no groove for a circlip.

What did your splitter look like? The one that came on my US spec saw attached to the rear of the main trunnion and as far as I could tell it was just a pain because the original owner of my saw clearly just took it off immediately and never used it because it was in pristine condition. It only tilted with the blade. It didn't actually move.

yeah my original splitter was a pain - had to adjust constantly - I fabricated it from a template of a Riving knife used for the rise fall type. I cut it down to allow shallow cuts, useful for trenching work. (I have a crown guard suspended above from a fabricated frame work arm)

before you can see how at low blade height how far away from the blade the splitter is (I was worried it might pinch as I use semi air dried stock quite regularly)
Now hopefully much safer

 

[Gremmy]

Gremmy, you are absolutely right, I tried one today, and it did indeed come off. Really appreciated the heads up.

Hey Deema - no worries at all. Glad my unintended discovery is of some use.

I’ve a question for you (sorry for thread hijack Kevin) how do you tighten your nut and grip the flange when changing blades? I’ve got a few C spanners and they don’t fit into the round hole in the flange, I’ve ground one down but there just isn’t the space to get purchase.
I’m ashamed to say that I have resorted to putting a 9.5mm drill bit shaft into the flange hole while using a spanner on the nut.. but I can see that this will potentially distort the hole as per previous photos Kevin put up over time and warp the face..

 

[deema]

Hi Gremmy,
I don’t is the best answer, I use what I believe is the old timers trick. I stick a piece of wood into the blade, anything fairly thin will do, ie 12 / 18mm ply for example I then just untighten the nut (keeping anything fleshy away from the blade) the wood stops the blade turning. Unfortunately the Wadkin blade lock design isn’t very good, pressure in the hole distorts the flange by bruising the metal, and your blade won’t run true.
One good turn deserves another, if you message me your address, when we make another steel spindle lock (fancy name for a stick of metal of the correct diameter to fit the hole with a knurled handle) I will make one for you and send it over with my thanks. Useful to release the nut in the very rare occassions the blade slips in the flanges.

 

[Gremmy]

Hi Gremmy,
I don’t is the best answer, I use what I believe is the old timers trick. I stick a piece of wood into the blade, anything fairly thin will do, ie 12 / 18mm ply for example I then just untighten the nut (keeping anything fleshy away from the blade) the wood stops the blade turning. Unfortunately the Wadkin blade lock design isn’t very good, pressure in the hole distorts the flange by bruising the metal, and your blade won’t run true.
One good turn deserves another, if you message me your address, when we make another steel spindle lock (fancy name for a stick of metal of the correct diameter to fit the hole with a knurled handle) I will make one for you and send it over with my thanks. Useful to release the nut in the very rare occassions the blade slips in the flanges.

Hi Deema,

many thanks for the advice - I use a piece of timber when undoing the blade, but tightening is where I struggle. Ive had a blade slip a few times under use due to poor tightening. Scared myself so using the drill bit shaft at present. I can see how using a piece of timber at the back of the blade would certainly work in the same way as how I loosen the blade. The nut is probably getting worn and impossible to replace (12 tpi square thread @5/8th inch..) and into the £100’s to have someone machine up a replacement and they’d probably need the arbour for checking..
I’ll gladly take you up on the offer, message on route

Best

 

[KT_NorCal]

regarding my spindle housing, it didn’t have a recessed groove, just plain- see photo, no groove for a circlip.

Hi Gremmy,
Ah, I was confused as to how it maintains its position on the arbor housing, but after looking at the pictures I guess that entire framework is anchored to the trunnion in two places and unlike the "parallelogram" style is rigid so it probably doesn't need it.

yeah my original splitter was a pain - had to adjust constantly - I fabricated it from a template of a Riving knife used for the rise fall type. I cut it down to allow shallow cuts, useful for trenching work. (I have a crown guard suspended above from a fabricated frame work arm)

before you can see how at low blade height how far away from the blade the splitter is (I was worried it might pinch as I use semi air dried stock quite regularly)
Now hopefully much safer

Yea, this splitter on mine was actually mounted even farther back than yours was and given the optimum thickness of a riving knife is somewhere between the plate thickness and the kerf thickness it was doubly potentially useless given how thin it is. The original owner of my saw probably made the exact same assessment I made when he got the saw and promptly took it off.

My hope is to find a proper UK style crown guard for one of these AGS10s for a reasonable amount of cash. My intention is to make a few riving knifes to match a few different blades and then also one that works with an original style crown guard, so we'll see how that turns out....

Also, great minds apparently think alike... I'm also planning on putting a clown nose kill switch in exactly the same place as you put one on your mobile base and I'm also intending to build a miter bench (for my Delta RAS) that will allow me to nest both the table saw and the minimax FS35 jointer/thicknesser under it!

KT

 

[KT_NorCal]

Hey Deema - no worries at all. Glad my unintended discovery is of some use.

I’ve a question for you (sorry for thread hijack Kevin)

Not a problem at all.... all useful info!

I’m ashamed to say that I have resorted to putting a 9.5mm drill bit shaft into the flange hole while using a spanner on the nut.. but I can see that this will potentially distort the hole as per previous photos Kevin put up over time and warp the face..

I'm not sure what the holes were originally, but if you need something that is a closer fit and gives you some length look for some "drill rod." Its usually made from high quality steel and should fit the hole better without as much slop. They also generally come in lengths that are perfect for this sort of thing.

Hi Deema,
The nut is probably getting worn and impossible to replace (12 tpi square thread @5/8th inch..) and into the £100’s to have someone machine up a replacement and they’d probably need the arbour for checking..
I’ll gladly take you up on the offer, message on route
Best

It does sound like your arbor nut is a probably pretty worn if you are having to crank it down that much. I don't know if the Delta Unisaw was ever sold over your side of the pond, but if you can find an arbor nut for one they are basically a perfect fit. My saw only came with the "dado nut" and was missing its arbor nut, but it turns out that the Unisaw nut fit just fine on it. I suspect they are the exact same thread type. There was a thread on this site that discussed the thread in depth if you do a search for it.

KT

 

[Vann]

I don’t is the best answer, I use what I believe is the old timers trick. I stick a piece of wood into the blade, anything fairly thin will do...

...Useful to release the nut in the very rare occassions the blade slips in the flanges.

For my Wadkin PK I've resorted to using the pin. I've had all my blades drilled to take the pin to avoid any issues with blade slippage.

I'm about to do the same with my Wadkin CK radial arm saw. I don't know if any of the Wadkin-Bursgreen saws had that facility.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[KT_NorCal]

For my Wadkin PK I've resorted to using the pin. I've had all my blades drilled to take the pin to avoid any issues with blade slippage.

I'm about to do the same with my Wadkin CK radial arm saw. I don't know if any of the Wadkin-Bursgreen saws had that facility.

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann,
Are you talking about the locating pin like there is a hole for in the trenching heads?

I've often wondered it the heads were meant to match a hole in the flange or not and someone I know over here said his Wadkin Bursgreen BRA radial arm saw did have a hole in the inner flange, so I assume one would be threaded into that and then the trenching heads mounted on that way? Is there outer flange set up with a matching hole for the pin by any chance?

KT

 

[deema]

It would be unusual for the blade to slip, even with fairly light tightening pressure, I just nip them. The act of turning the saw off tightens the nut up. My personal saw runs a 450mm blade without a driving pin and doesn’t slip.
The main reason usually for a slipping blades is that the flanges are not flat, and there is only a couple of points in contact with the blade.