Wadkin ags 10 Lock Nut

[Amplidyne]

I agree square threads are a PITA. I did one on an eight inch machine vice a while ago and ended up making my own tool, based on careful measurement of the male thread.
Worth it to me as I picked up the vice for very little and it was in good condition apart from the nut being worn out.
But if you just want a working machine then much easier and cheaper to just replace it with something more widely available, if of course you have the means to do it. If you had to pay someone then the £90 nut might well be cheaper.
The joys of old machinery

Never actually cut one, but everything I've seen, both online and in Machinery's Handbook point to the tool having to be just right, and that the threads are a pain to cut.

 

[Fergie 307]

To be fair once I had made the tool actually cutting the thread was pretty straightforward.
Fine tuning the tool wasn't!
Very difficult to get the shape just right so it doesn't bind as you get further into the cut.
What I ended up with was something very like a parting off tool but shallower and with the section supporting the cutting face angled to follow just inside the cut thread, if that makes sense.
And you have to clear the chips constantly.
I ended up having the coolant firing straight down the bore.
I had a couple of test runs on aluminium before launching into a big lump of phosphor bronze.

 

[samweb132]

I agree square threads are a PITA. I did one on an eight inch machine vice a while ago and ended up making my own tool, based on careful measurement of the male thread.
Worth it to me as I picked up the vice for very little and it was in good condition apart from the nut being worn out.
But if you just want a working machine then much easier and cheaper to just replace it with something more widely available, if of course you have the means to do it. If you had to pay someone then the £90 nut might well be cheaper.
The joys of old machinery

Yeh I completely agree. This wadkin was to be my own first table saw, after moving out another shop. However still need to replace the start stop box. Get it wired in to 3 phase, replace fence, fit it in my shop, make a cross cut sled, sort out riving knife assembly. Contemplating buying one of those wee portable saws until I get this one fully ready to make accurate cuts. But I would problably agree if I'm honest with the price. I have realy struggled to find anyone bar Canadians who have the ability and willingness to machine these nuts for me.

 

[Fergie 307]

Our friends over the pond are still imperial, so you can buy the tools to do it, but a fair old price for a one off, especially when you add shipping.
I went down the rabbit hole of making my own in HSS. In hindsight I should really have got the nearest metric size tipped tool, which are not too expensive. I have a diamond lapping disc so could have then fine tuned it.
The main problem I had was that the tool cut well, but wanted to produce a ribbon rather than chips, not helpful in a bore! So I had to take a lot of fine passes with a good flow of coolant to keep the tool clear.
The commercial tools have a profile which is better at breaking up the material removed.

 

[Fitzroy]

Yeh I completely agree. This wadkin was to be my own first table saw, after moving out another shop. However still need to replace the start stop box. Get it wired in to 3 phase, replace fence, fit it in my shop, make a cross cut sled, sort out riving knife assembly. Contemplating buying one of those wee portable saws until I get this one fully ready to make accurate cuts. But I would problably agree if I'm honest with the price. I have realy struggled to find anyone bar Canadians who have the ability and willingness to machine these nuts for me.

I’ve had a few of those project tools, have to buy other project tools to fix the first one, eventually via circular tool fixing you return to the first and get it running!

 

[Billy_wizz]

I think a commercial retail price of £90 is very reasonable. It’s a square thread, so, I don’t believe there is an available insert to cut it, it required grinding a HSS blank to form the correct shape. Equally couldn’t find a commercially available checking jig for grinding the tool (they are available for say Acme or Trapezoidal). So there’s a fair bit of messing around to get a tool to make the nut. Next, it’s a square thread which is hard to cut, harder than say an Acme. If it’s made in a CNC you’ve a program to write and a tool to setup.
So, although it’s ‘just’ a simple nut, it’s not so simple to make one or two off.

Why Wadkin would choose an odd standard square thread for the shaft I cannot understand. After all, it carry’s no real load at all. A standard imperial if metric thread is more than adequate.

There was probably a reason a few hundred years ago when they first started using it and then everyone used it because it was what they had always used lol

 

[Housey210]

Hi fellas! First time posting here!

Been slowly restoring this wadkin ags 10 saw and now got too actually putting a blade on it.
Trouble is I have absolutely no idea what thread this is or where to get one. I know for sure it is a reverse thread. Suspect it is imperial and also suspect it is square not acme.
Can anyone help with sourcing or identifying this thread or how to get a nut for it?

I have already messaged my local machine shop and they were very helpful quoting me websites where I may find a nut for it (but I have no idea which one is the right one) but they said the quote would be around £300-400 as they don't have the skills and tools so would have to take a whole day to do it.
Thanks Sam!

View attachment 190147

did it arrive? does it fit? just checked the webpage, no stock but price now, when next made, £105.
https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/machinery/product.asp?item=main-spindle-nut-special-7725-230

 

[samweb132]

did it arrive? does it fit? just checked the webpage, no stock but price now, when next made, £105.
https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/machinery/product.asp?item=main-spindle-nut-special-7725-230

Just arrived. Gutted. Thread appears to be ACME. I could maybe try force it on but don't want to ruin the thread. Thread onto the starting thread but them just won't go on any further.

 

[samweb132]

Unsure what my next move will be from here. Will leave it for a couple days and have a think. The saw Is in realy good condition and ive already put quite a few hours into tidying it up. But not sure I want to commit to buying a whole other saw just for a nut. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[Amplidyne]

Just arrived. Gutted. Thread appears to be ACME. I could maybe try force it on but don't want to ruin the thread. Thread onto the starting thread but them just won't go on any further.

I'd be looking at sending it back for a refund. "Special nut" is hardly an engineer's description of a nut, and it was sold saying it was the spindle nut for a Wadkin.

 

[samweb132]

I'd be looking at sending it back for a refund. "Special nut" is hardly an engineer's description of a nut, and it was sold saying it was the spindle nut for a Wadkin.

I'll give them a message and see what they say.

 

[Housey210]

Unsure what my next move will be from here. Will leave it for a couple days and have a think. The saw Is in realy good condition and ive already put quite a few hours into tidying it up. But not sure I want to commit to buying a whole other saw just for a nut. Thanks for the input everyone.

if the machine has a badge / model plate quote them the machine number. 5/8 BSF according to manuals!

 

[ChaiLatte]

...not sure I want to commit to buying a whole other saw just for a nut

You could keep looking around and try to find a nut-less spindle at a good price.

That would give you a piece you could cut down and send to someone in order to make a nut to fit without dismantling your own machine.

Alternatively, you could send the whole spindle and they could modify it to a more standard thread in line with some of the ideas above.

A person having a part where there was no time pressure to produce a nut would likely reduce the cost. Also having a part that it did not matter too much if I screwed it up, knowing that you still had your original spindle as backup, might increase your chances of finding someone to carry out the task.

 

[samweb132]

You could keep looking around and try to find a nut-less spindle at a good price.

That would give you a piece you could cut down and send to someone in order to make a nut to fit without dismantling your own machine.

Alternatively, you could send the whole spindle and they could modify it to a more standard thread in line with some of the ideas above.

A person having a part where there was no time pressure to produce a nut would likely reduce the cost. Also having a part that it did not matter too much if I screwed it up, knowing that you still had your original spindle as backup, might increase your chances of finding someone to carry out the task.

Yeah I've been looking around for one. However I did email John Mills as mentioned before and have received a pretty concise "I should be able to sort that out for you". So hopefully he will manage to help me. But will continue looking for a spare spindle in the mean time.

 

[guineafowl21]

Yeah I've been looking around for one. However I did email John Mills as mentioned before and have received a pretty concise "I should be able to sort that out for you". So hopefully he will manage to help me. But will continue looking for a spare spindle in the mean time.

If you bought the nut online, check the Citizens Advice website (or similar). You have quite a lot of rights to send something back.

John will probably want you to send the spindle, so go with Recorded, and give some idea of what size nut to make, and of what material. A decent steel is probably best, but he made my 7.5 TPI, 46mm nut out of brass, and it works very nicely. He’s got all sorts of thread measuring gear and charts so will work yours out no problem.

 

[samweb132]

If you bought the nut online, check the Citizens Advice website (or similar). You have quite a lot of rights to send something back.

John will probably want you to send the spindle, so go with Recorded, and give some idea of what size nut to make, and of what material. A decent steel is probably best, but he made my 7.5 TPI, 46mm nut out of brass, and it works very nicely.

Thank you. Need to get the number off my saw first before messaging them but will do if they aren't happy with a return.

I've given basic info to him already In my initial email. Will send RM SP. Not replied after his first email back but only been a few hours so just my impatience. Fingers crossed.

 

[Housey210]

Hi fellas! First time posting here!

Been slowly restoring this wadkin ags 10 saw and now got too actually putting a blade on it.
Trouble is I have absolutely no idea what thread this is or where to get one. I know for sure it is a reverse thread. Suspect it is imperial and also suspect it is square not acme.
Can anyone help with sourcing or identifying this thread or how to get a nut for it?

I have already messaged my local machine shop and they were very helpful quoting me websites where I may find a nut for it (but I have no idea which one is the right one) but they said the quote would be around £300-400 as they don't have the skills and tools so would have to take a whole day to do it.
Thanks Sam!

View attachment 190147

The saw spindle shown in manual states two sizes, 20mm and 25mm, the pulley end is stated 5/8. Your picky shows 16mm, (5/8)
link below shows another nut. If the nut purchased is wrong I am sure they will take it back, machine number would assist, and ask about the one in link
https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk...w-spindle-nut-for-wadkin-ags-250-300-4544-972

can you put a picky up of the complete spindle.

 

[samweb132]

The saw spindle shown in manual states two sizes, 20mm and 25mm, the pulley end is stated 5/8. Your picky shows 16mm, (5/8)
link below shows another nut. If the nut purchased is wrong I am sure they will take it back, machine number would assist, and ask about the one in link
https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk...w-spindle-nut-for-wadkin-ags-250-300-4544-972

can you put a picky up of the complete spindle.

So I believe the nut I need is off the older manual for the wadkin 10 ags.
I'll attach a pic here. Just packing it up right now to send off to John.

 

[samweb132]

The saw spindle shown in manual states two sizes, 20mm and 25mm, the pulley end is stated 5/8. Your picky shows 16mm, (5/8)
link below shows another nut. If the nut purchased is wrong I am sure they will take it back, machine number would assist, and ask about the one in link
https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk...w-spindle-nut-for-wadkin-ags-250-300-4544-972

can you put a picky up of the complete spindle.

The one in the link if you look closely appears to have standard looking thread (triangular). I won't manage to get back to my shop for a couple days. So won't manage to get any numbers off it unfortunately. I have the spindle with me though.

 

[samweb132]

Slightly frustrating from them.