Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
Don't forget the blue passports...
Axminster price increasing
- Thread starter TRITON
- Start date
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I haven't seen the history of your experience with axi, it may be on another thread. Buy from where you choose, that is your prerogative, but I thing that you are taking this too personally. If Axi or anybody are not selling at market rate, they wont sell much or anything. When buying a machine, look at the spec for what you want, compare out with what you need and compare the prices on offer. If Axi, Record, Jet, whoever all make a machine that fits the spec, then I doubt that there will be much between them all. If costs rise, prices will rise. If they fall, there may be an element of discounting (lol) but I doubt that any of the manufacturers or rebadges have used covid/brexit/shipping issues to increase their margins. I suspect that many of them are more concerned about survival. If they can even make the kit they cant get it to retailers to sell it.
Yorkieguy
Established Member
Back in March this year, a chum with a limited budget and little workshop space who wished to take up woodturning to turn small bowls, pens and the like sought my advice about a suitable lathe. . The Axminster AC305 seemed to fit the bill – it’s 2ft between centres and 6 inches over the bed, has two electronically variable speed ranges on two belts: 500 to 2,040, which would suffice for most purposes, and 1,000 to 4,080RPM, (which he’d rarely need to use). It has a quiet smooth 550 Watt motor and the lathe bed, tailstock and headstock are all cast iron, so it's solidly built. It has a commonplace place spindle thread of 1" x 8TPI so accessories such as chucks, and faceplates will be widely available. It comes with several accessories and was well-priced at £350, with a three-year warranty.
As he’d had a pacemaker fitted (which resulted in him having to retire early as he was a TIG welder, which would have interfered with his pacemaker), he sought reassurances from his specialist that neither the lathe motor nor electronic speed control would affect the operation of the pacemaker. On his behalf I contacted Axminster ‘technical’ department to see if they had any information on this. Unsurprisingly, they didn’t – to a large extent they’re importers and marketers of mainly Chinese made equipment and have neither electronics nor medical expertise so were unable to help.
Clinicians aren’t electronics experts either, so it took some time for him to eventually get assurances from the makers of the pacemaker and the NHS that he’d be fine if his pacemaker was at least 1ft away from the electronics. He was assured that though some equipment which emits EMI can disturb the correct operation of the pacemaker, it can't damage it. The advice is that if you are using any equipment that causes palpitations, to stop using it and the pacemaker will revert to normal operation.
By the time he’d received these assurances, the lathe had increased in price to £399.98 – a 14% increase in nine months.
Axminster Craft AC305WL Woodturning Lathe - 230V
Doubtless all of the factors mentioned in this thread have had an influence on the price, but of course the normal economic principles of supply and demand and market forces also come into play. If demand increases and supply is inflexible (at least in the short term), the price will increase to as high as the market will stand. During lockdown, the demand for hobby equipment and materials his increased markedly and supply has at best been static or has reduced. Hence, up goes the price.
In May, I bought an Axminster AC150BDS belt and disc sander for £119.95. I see that it's now £129.78, but is out of stock anyway (supply V demand). An increase of 8% in 7 months - an annual increase of 14%. Though many have been impoverished by the consequences of Covid this year, many others have not. Hobbyists are often retired and with high net disposable incomes, so tend not to be price sensitive. Another tenner wouldn't have stopped me buying the sander, nor would another £50 for the lathe if I was in the market for one:
Axminster Craft AC150BDS Belt & Disc Sander | Axminster Tools
As he’d had a pacemaker fitted (which resulted in him having to retire early as he was a TIG welder, which would have interfered with his pacemaker), he sought reassurances from his specialist that neither the lathe motor nor electronic speed control would affect the operation of the pacemaker. On his behalf I contacted Axminster ‘technical’ department to see if they had any information on this. Unsurprisingly, they didn’t – to a large extent they’re importers and marketers of mainly Chinese made equipment and have neither electronics nor medical expertise so were unable to help.
Clinicians aren’t electronics experts either, so it took some time for him to eventually get assurances from the makers of the pacemaker and the NHS that he’d be fine if his pacemaker was at least 1ft away from the electronics. He was assured that though some equipment which emits EMI can disturb the correct operation of the pacemaker, it can't damage it. The advice is that if you are using any equipment that causes palpitations, to stop using it and the pacemaker will revert to normal operation.
By the time he’d received these assurances, the lathe had increased in price to £399.98 – a 14% increase in nine months.
Axminster Craft AC305WL Woodturning Lathe - 230V
Doubtless all of the factors mentioned in this thread have had an influence on the price, but of course the normal economic principles of supply and demand and market forces also come into play. If demand increases and supply is inflexible (at least in the short term), the price will increase to as high as the market will stand. During lockdown, the demand for hobby equipment and materials his increased markedly and supply has at best been static or has reduced. Hence, up goes the price.
In May, I bought an Axminster AC150BDS belt and disc sander for £119.95. I see that it's now £129.78, but is out of stock anyway (supply V demand). An increase of 8% in 7 months - an annual increase of 14%. Though many have been impoverished by the consequences of Covid this year, many others have not. Hobbyists are often retired and with high net disposable incomes, so tend not to be price sensitive. Another tenner wouldn't have stopped me buying the sander, nor would another £50 for the lathe if I was in the market for one:
Axminster Craft AC150BDS Belt & Disc Sander | Axminster Tools
whilst this is a nice theory, an increase of 8% over the last 7 months is likely nothing to do with the reduced availability increasing the price. Many places have kept the price (or at least the margin) the same, and have simply sold out. Toilet roll sold out in supermarkets, they didn't jack the price up to a fiver a roll as a result. Axminster isnt the stock exchange.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
There are so many moving parts to this: first off a supply shock when China shut down its economy at the beginning of the year. Just as this started feeding through, there was as worldwide demand shock as everyone else shut down. Businesses now have no idea what the near term demand will be, so would be very brave to hold a full inventory. That would all be deflationary. They may not even be able to get China to fulfill orders, given their ongoing issues,
9 months on it seems that there is high demand for goods, with reduced availibility. This is inflationary in its own right. Then we can add in Brexit, with its own supply problems, and probable currency devaluation which will also be inflationary. As I understand it, Axminster try to set their prices once a year with their new catalogue, and they have to do quite a bit of guessing as to what will come in the next year. I wouldn't want that job.
Finally, don't forget that the UK, along with all major governments, is printing money like it is going out of fashion. Vast amounts of new cash are swilling around the system, which is also inflationary.
So, we have deflationary economic conditions, and inflationary economic conditions, and insane government borrowing and printing. If we suffer deflation the banks all implode immediately, hence the government printing. Can the government print enough? Will the economy stay on track? Is there, in actuality, an economy? Deutsche Bank hasn't caught fire yet, but it is just a matter of time before one of the "Too Big To fail" banks actually does fail, and then we are off to the races. Perhaps we have wheelbarrows of cash in our future, a la Weimar Germany. Perhaps we don't. However, in order to not default on the unpayable debt, the governments around the world need to inflate away their debt. That means high, but controlled, inflation. 14% per annum would be about perfect. Perhaps we should use Axminster as the new CPI, because the government statistics aren't remotely accurate, and never have been.
Or to put it another way, don't blame Axminster, blame government. It's their unresolved mess from 2009 that we are still struggling with.
9 months on it seems that there is high demand for goods, with reduced availibility. This is inflationary in its own right. Then we can add in Brexit, with its own supply problems, and probable currency devaluation which will also be inflationary. As I understand it, Axminster try to set their prices once a year with their new catalogue, and they have to do quite a bit of guessing as to what will come in the next year. I wouldn't want that job.
Finally, don't forget that the UK, along with all major governments, is printing money like it is going out of fashion. Vast amounts of new cash are swilling around the system, which is also inflationary.
So, we have deflationary economic conditions, and inflationary economic conditions, and insane government borrowing and printing. If we suffer deflation the banks all implode immediately, hence the government printing. Can the government print enough? Will the economy stay on track? Is there, in actuality, an economy? Deutsche Bank hasn't caught fire yet, but it is just a matter of time before one of the "Too Big To fail" banks actually does fail, and then we are off to the races. Perhaps we have wheelbarrows of cash in our future, a la Weimar Germany. Perhaps we don't. However, in order to not default on the unpayable debt, the governments around the world need to inflate away their debt. That means high, but controlled, inflation. 14% per annum would be about perfect. Perhaps we should use Axminster as the new CPI, because the government statistics aren't remotely accurate, and never have been.
Or to put it another way, don't blame Axminster, blame government. It's their unresolved mess from 2009 that we are still struggling with.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Most of the price increases are down to exchange rates and inflation since the referendum in 2016.
General UK inflation is ~ 10% since 2016.
Pre referendum exchange rates compared to now:
- Euro ~ 1.30 : £. Now approx 1.10
- US$ ~ 1.45 : £. Now approx 1.32
- Chinese yuan ~ 10.5 : £. Now approx 8.8
So prices in the UK would have increased by ~15-20% because of exchange rate movements.
Total price increases since 2016 is 25-30%. Note that covid may have significant short term impacts on prices due to shortages, closed factories, shipping issues etc.
General UK inflation is ~ 10% since 2016.
Pre referendum exchange rates compared to now:
- Euro ~ 1.30 : £. Now approx 1.10
- US$ ~ 1.45 : £. Now approx 1.32
- Chinese yuan ~ 10.5 : £. Now approx 8.8
So prices in the UK would have increased by ~15-20% because of exchange rate movements.
Total price increases since 2016 is 25-30%. Note that covid may have significant short term impacts on prices due to shortages, closed factories, shipping issues etc.
jackal
Wallybois Woodworking on YouTube
200 billion by the end of the year is expected
jackal
Wallybois Woodworking on YouTube
Misterdog
Established Member
Though for balance ignoring 'Brexit' bias.
Inflation in 2019.
UK. - 1.74 %
Germany - 1.45 %
China - 2.9 %
Misterdog
Established Member
I touched on VAT earlier, it rose from 17.5 to 20% in 2011.
So there was 2.5 % of the increase, minimum. For just that one year alone.
However every time there is an increase in the factory price, or transport price this VAT is then added to that price. It is even added to the import tax levied on goods from outside of the EU.
Of course VAT has nothing to do with Brexit.......
My brother lives in the US and has no sales tax !!
Imported goods there are generally 10/15 % cheaper than here.
So there was 2.5 % of the increase, minimum. For just that one year alone.
However every time there is an increase in the factory price, or transport price this VAT is then added to that price. It is even added to the import tax levied on goods from outside of the EU.
Of course VAT has nothing to do with Brexit.......
My brother lives in the US and has no sales tax !!
Imported goods there are generally 10/15 % cheaper than here.
billw
The Tattooed One
Some states do have sales tax, e.g. New York, and even more irritatingly some shops declare it on price tags and some add it at the till. It's about 8 or 9% too I think.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Normal China-UK container was ~£1500 until end October, after which it started to rise rapidly to ~£4000 by early December. The spot market is highly volatile at present - covid issues??
A 40ft container holds (40x8x8) 2560 cu ft of product - based on a more normal shipping cost per container of ~£1500, cost per cu ft is ~70p. Customs clearance, insurance, other documentation etc is on to of this.
I find it extraordinary that it is so cheap - it probably costs almost as much to transport a container 300 miles from Hull to Axminster as 6000 miles from Shanghai to Hull.
The shipping cost element on total landed cost depends on the product value per cu ft. In a woodworking context:
- lunchbox thicknesser, cost (say) £500, (say) 3 cu ft, £2 shipping
- diy electric drill, cost (say) £80, (say) 0.5 cu ft, 40p shipping
- woodturning lathe, cost (say) £1500, (say) 6 cu ft, shipping £5
Shipping costs may be a contributury element in Axminster price increases, but it may evidence how they want to position themselves in the market. Premium brands for well heeled hobbyists who are able and content to pay for the best, and knowledgable professional woodworkers who value reliable performance over lowest cost.
Cheapskate hobbyists like me who are happy to spend a couple of hours on internet research to save £20 on a £200 purchase may no longer be Axminster chosen niche - although I do hope the maintain their generally very good levels of customer service.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
Price may be going up but component quality is definitely going down. It looks the same as it always did but the bits inside are nowhere near as good as they used to be. They are fast approaching a similar position with regards quality and reliability of the kit they sells as I hold Rutlands to be at. Yes Axi have always had good to very good customer service but I don't buy things to have a relationship with a company's customer service department but to avoid it completely
Mead Camans
George
Perhaps this is getting on a slight side tangent with regards to the original post, but I have to second this motion. The quality of recent Axminster machinery has made me question buying kit from them again. The space I work in is letted to me by a larger company who a few months ago purchased a brand new Axi AT254PS13 panel saw and an AT60E extractor, retailing at £1349 and £719 respectively, and they have been kind enough to let me use this machinery on the weekends while I've been without my own. I've not been overly impressed with my experiences.
Starting with the saw, the rip fence lock comes loose during use, meaning that your cuts get incrementally wider with each pass. The plastic handle had since fallen off making locking the fence even more difficult. The motor has also overheated and cut out after half an hour of continued use.
The extractor developed a leak not long ago, which means that during use, it spews fine dust into the air from a gap in the seam of its body work. I slapped a bit of duct tape over it which did the trick, but its still unacceptable if you ask me. Never had that with any other kit, no matter how "affordable".
All I can say is that if these were actually my machines that I'd paid money for, I'd be pretty cheesed off.
alex_heney
Established Member
So which state out of Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire or Oregon does he live in?
Those are the only US states with no sales tax.
Others vary between 2.9% and 9.98%.
Arnold9801
Established Member
I stopped buying from them a few years ago after I felt was greedy and gutsy price increases. I don’t even have their catalogue anymore such I said my distaste for Axminster Power Tools.
They’ve lost the plot and I’ve lost interest in them so won’t give them a penny of mine anymore.
They’ve lost the plot and I’ve lost interest in them so won’t give them a penny of mine anymore.
Things certianly have been going up in price. We have rellies in the US and brought home a lot of goodies in the mid '70's when £1 bought you $2.30,and airlines still gave you 35Kg allowance. I guess it's always been that way, as my father referred to 5 bob as a dollar - there were once 4 $ to a pound...
I think the rot set in at Axminster as the generations iin charge changed. Once they had small overcrowded premises and very tight pricing. Dad retires, new build, grand new base and warehouse developed, new branches open over UK, new marketing department, all cost money so up goes the price. In the current uncertain world, you'd expect higher prices again, as insurance against low returns.
Where else to go, Arnold 9801?
As for the future, who knows? About half of UK fishing rights have already been sold off to foreign fleet owners and can't "come back". "No deal" will scupper the fishermen as 80 odd% of the catch has gone to the EU as they will pay more than us for it. No deal tarrifs will kill that trade. Why? well UK citizens eat manly cheaper imported fish, as UK caught is seen as too expensive, and matching import prices will likely put them out of business. World trading moves general manufacture to areas of low labour cost; first Japan ,then Taiwan, China, now other Asian countries and India... Africa and S America to go - what happens when no one wants to work for a bowl of rice / sago / quinoa etc.? The UK is left with high end products, best of all if intellectual, like Arm, who design computer chips and license foreign companies to make them. Who employs low skilled workers though... Korea began to address this problem over 20 years ago with massive beefing up of education and technical training. The UK seems as well prepared for this as we were for a pandemic...
We can always send a gunboatNOnono aircraft carrier (with no planes) to show who's boss!
I think the rot set in at Axminster as the generations iin charge changed. Once they had small overcrowded premises and very tight pricing. Dad retires, new build, grand new base and warehouse developed, new branches open over UK, new marketing department, all cost money so up goes the price. In the current uncertain world, you'd expect higher prices again, as insurance against low returns.
Where else to go, Arnold 9801?
As for the future, who knows? About half of UK fishing rights have already been sold off to foreign fleet owners and can't "come back". "No deal" will scupper the fishermen as 80 odd% of the catch has gone to the EU as they will pay more than us for it. No deal tarrifs will kill that trade. Why? well UK citizens eat manly cheaper imported fish, as UK caught is seen as too expensive, and matching import prices will likely put them out of business. World trading moves general manufacture to areas of low labour cost; first Japan ,then Taiwan, China, now other Asian countries and India... Africa and S America to go - what happens when no one wants to work for a bowl of rice / sago / quinoa etc.? The UK is left with high end products, best of all if intellectual, like Arm, who design computer chips and license foreign companies to make them. Who employs low skilled workers though... Korea began to address this problem over 20 years ago with massive beefing up of education and technical training. The UK seems as well prepared for this as we were for a pandemic...
We can always send a gunboatNOnono aircraft carrier (with no planes) to show who's boss!
billw
The Tattooed One
ARM is US-owned now, after briefly being Japanese. We really need to sort out what this country is going to do in the future because right now there's no long-term plan thanks to our chaotic political system that demands short termism.
I think it was really unfair that the prices went up as much as they did this time. Just means we have to be more creative with what we have got.
I like their products but 10/15% price increases are just not fair. Now they also charge £60 for their heavy goods delivery.
I get that there is a lot of demand but it’s not fair for people entering the world of woodwork.
I like their products but 10/15% price increases are just not fair. Now they also charge £60 for their heavy goods delivery.
I get that there is a lot of demand but it’s not fair for people entering the world of woodwork.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
You mention fairness three times. Business is not intended to be fair. It is intended to maximise return for the owners. Shop around.
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