Another bandsaw question!

[Plwm]

Hi folks,
Yet another bandsaw question, sorry! Just getting into woodworking as a hobby though have been doing diy for many years.
Initially I was thinking of getting a basic 'hobby' bandsaw but after reading many threads I'm leaning towards the Record BS350. Quite a bit more than I planned on spending but hopefully it will serve me well for years to come.

Q1 - I have read that deals can be got at shows - what sort of money off/deals? The cheapest I've seen this model for is £700, my nearest upcoming show is about 70 miles away (fuel cost)...
Q2 - Should I consider any other bandsaws? Not overly keen on 2nd hand with potential problems.

Many thanks in advance

Neil

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Fundamental question is what do you plan to cut? The response to that informs the scope of model specifications apporopriate to your needs. Having said that, with bandsaws, speaking generically, bigger is better. I have the one up from your model, the 400 but I need to process log material. It is therefore likely the 350 will be a good choice.

There are 4 primary specification variables: throat (distance from blade to the metal comprising the stand), the depth under the guides ie the tallest you can cut and the max width of blade it can handle at tension (almost always 1/4" less then the published max in reality). The last is the power of the motor which is necessarily larger as the machine is expected to power through ever larger pieces of timber.

Bandsaw's are typically categorised by throat ie the BS400 has a 400mm throat (16") which means you can manoeuvre reasonable chunks of wood through a radiused cut without fouling on the stand. If your needs are going to be resawing smallish boards and doing the odd light radius (like on curved tab legs) then you could probably get away with buying the less expensive BS300. I owned one of those before my 400 and with a decent blade (from Tuffsaws) it performed exceptionally well. If your radiused cuts are likely to be too big to fit in a foot long throat then you'll need to scale up. Equally, if you need a wide blade (3/4"or more) you'll need the beam strength and sheer chunk to tension it which means more of a beast ie the 400 and upwards. Being a woodturner, I harvest my own material directly from green, freshly cut native British trees so my choice was commensurate with a certain amount of heft. Your choice, if the wood is typically kiln dried stock aimed at lightish furniture type projects, may not warrant such a spend. I wouldn't go below a 300 myself.

Shows are the best option as RP tightly control the pricing but you can order it from the show over the phone (I did). If you push a bit they will almost certainly agree to free delivery on top of the show discount too.

Lastly, personally I would not discount 2nd hand but I understand your reasons

 

[Alexam]

My own purchase of Record BS400 was done on the phone and I know several others who have done this. You need to talk with the Record Rep on the day and as Bob says, delivery was also a possibility thrown in. With the 5 year guarantee, the BS350 or 400 represents a good buy and I don't think you would be dissapointed.
Malcolm

 

[Plwm]

Bob, Malcolm, thanks for your comments. The million dollar Q - what do I plan to cut?

- I've recently started trying my hand at spoon carving and hand carving small bowls so preparing blanks and trimming waste. I have a good supply of logs, up to 12" diameter available but can always use my hydraulic log splitter / chainsaw to reduce initially.
- Re-sawing boards etc
- Would like to have a go at bandsaw boxes
- Not sure what else at mo but usually try to buy the best I can afford (or spend more than I planned!)

Who knows what else the future holds! Like the idea of trying turning as well but can't justify the cost of machine/tools just to try it, a bandsaw seems like a more versatile long term machine!

Out of interest, what sort of show discount do RP offer? My nearest show will be about 70 miles away :-( so would need to factor in fuel cost.

Cheers, Neil

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Don't forget you can join a club to try turning - ours is £30 p.a. and £5 a night if you use the lathes (first two free, and all the tuition you want/need), so you could become a reasonable turner without spending a penny on your own gear.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Bob, Malcolm, thanks for your comments. The million dollar Q - what do I plan to cut?

- I've recently started trying my hand at spoon carving and hand carving small bowls so preparing blanks and trimming waste. I have a good supply of logs, up to 12" diameter available but can always use my hydraulic log splitter / chainsaw to reduce initially.
- Re-sawing boards etc
- Would like to have a go at bandsaw boxes
- Not sure what else at mo but usually try to buy the best I can afford (or spend more than I planned!)

Who knows what else the future holds! Like the idea of trying turning as well but can't justify the cost of machine/tools just to try it, a bandsaw seems like a more versatile long term machine!

Out of interest, what sort of show discount do RP offer? My nearest show will be about 70 miles away :-( so would need to factor in fuel cost.

Cheers, Neil

A goodly selection of cuts there and not at all untypical at this stage of your learning ie you're interested in everything...and good for you

In that case I wouldn't go for anything less than the 350 and if there's little price difference, would consider the 400 too.

Show prices: RP typically drop the normal published (discounted) price by a further £100 but the hidden deal is the free carriage which they rarely do outside the shows and it's rarely publicised either hence my earlier comment that you need to ask for it. You don't really need to sweat the pricing much because as mentioned, they keep very tight control over all their distributors so its always the same at their roadshows. You just need to call the dealer that's 70 miles from you on the day of the show (do it first thing in the morning at about 8:30). Ask to speak to the RP rep who will be putting final touches to their stand/demo podium. He will happily agree the price/delivery terms with you and then hand you to the dealer/distributor who will process the order and arrange shipping. So your warranty will be through that dealer for future stuff although any technical glitches are normally dealt direct with RP HQ (a chap called Alan). In the event of problems they generally ship parts direct to your home, bypassing the original dealer.

 

[PAC1]

When I bought my BS400 the dealer negotiated with Record for the same discount as at the show even though neither of us were at the show. So speak to a dealer and ask him to get you a show discount price and you will buy the weekend of the show. i think mine went through Monday morning after the show in the end. With the BS400 it usually does not matter about buying from a local dealer as it comes from Chesterfield on a big lorry in any event.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

If you haven't already found it, I recommend you read this entire thread as it will give you some insights into the world you're about to enter (warts and all).

topic78828.html

 

[Eric The Viking]

New is nice but......IMHO, small bandsaws aren't complex things, and easy to fettle.

Potential awkwardnesses on the Chinese ones:

• tensioner mech: long male thread that seems to wear easily. Might fabricate replacement bits, but not straightforward.
• tyres ("tires"): stupidly hard to find, but a wide range of brands use similar wheels - the crown is cast into the wheel, with rims, and the tyre is a giant rubber band, which takes the shape of the crown. On that basis, anybody's tyres of similar size should work. If tyres too wide you might cut them to width with a jig (the edge away from the teeth isn't very important) Record ones are different, IIRC, in that the wheels are pressed on some models (so can't be crowned). There are historic threads on here on how to re-tyre them though: Olly PJ did it successfully and others have too.
• NVR switch: for some utterly daft reason they're often built into the support pillar. This might be neat-looking, but it has two downsides - 1. it weakens the rigidity of the frame, and 2. you can't fettle the hole to fit a different one, because of (1.). The cheap ones aren't fully enclosed and can clog with sawdust (although it's worse on table saws as they're in the dusty cabinet; often they can simply be cleaned out), but there are good ones in plastic boxes available from Axminster et al. I have one of theirs on my router table and it's been fine for years. They'll mount anywhere convenient (redo the wiring and weld a strong panel over the old hole!).

Relatively easy issues:

• bearings: usually standard metric sizes (no reason for them not to be). On mine, easily changed with circlip pliers and common tools.
• guides (as long as they're the roller type): mine are simply sealed bearings with 8mm shaft diameter (held in place with a 4 or 5mm Allen bolt and a reducer). 6 off and you're done! The adjusters are bed-bolt fittings (a 10mm cross-drilled steel dowel, that slides in a tube with a slot in the side to take the bolt).
• fence: you can make your own fairly easily.
• drive belt: should go on forever unless it's had hard use. Worth checking, but measure the old one and find one on eBay (the exact length isn't critical).
• microswitches (safety interlocks): commonly available - just make sure you fit mains-rated ones, and properly insulate the connectors so nothing can short out or cause a shock (plastic boots over the connectors, etc.).

Final issue:

• motor: if damaged, could be tricky / expensive to replace. Failed capacitors (usually affecting starting) are straightforward, other issues not so good.

So that's the list of things I'd look at, to give arguments for a discount, or reasons to walk away if necessary.

If you're buying from someone trustworthy, you have the advantage that it'll have been working and any issues fixed before you own it. That may be better than getting a new one and having to deal with the retailer concerning warranty.

Note that none of this is specific to Record at all and they may have excellent support in the UK - I've no experience of them directly.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Just to add to Eric's piece. I do have quite a bit of experience with their support in the UK (2 bandsaws, pillar drill, 3 x DX units and used to have a planar thicknesser) and they've been very good to me. I've had various bugs over the years and I never go to the retailer (literally not once). I just telephone their technical department (Alan) and we discuss the issue after which they send me the broken part. They don't quibble about parts, quick chat and then boom....a new motor turns up the next day!

 

[woodpig]

Used Startrites are hard to beat if you can find one in reasonable condition.