An old handsaw.

[MixedHerbs]

About ten years ago, I found an old handsaw in a corner of my workshop - left there by the previous house-owner.

It looks almost exactly like a Disston No.7: http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/7page.html

However, the one I have only has two fixings on the handle plus the emblem stamp. The emblem stamp says: "Warranted Superior" around a coat of arms. The wood of the handle is of high quality.

The writing on the blade says "Const Bros", "Sheffield T Steel", and "Superior Quality".

The blade is 22 1/4 inches long. The steel at the cutting edge is thicker than at the top edge.

Has anyone any ideas as to its history and age?

All in all it looks as though this saw was rather expensive in its day. I had it sharpened some nine years ago by someone whom I thought could do the job. Got it home, tried it, dreadful. Very difficult to use. I concluded (I now think wrongly) that it was a lousy saw and so put it to one side.

I am not up to sharpening and perhaps re-cutting this saw. Does anyone know of a saw doctor in the Devon area who can make it "sing" again?

Here are a few pictures:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/MixedHerbs/DSCN0807.jpg

and

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/MixedHerbs/DSCN0808.jpg

Regards, Peter.



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[Jarviser]

It looks like a rip saw from the angle of the teeth, but it's not too clear, and 22 inch is a bit short for a ripper.
How many teeth per inch? Did you try it along the grain, or across?
You would need to get a great deal of the rust off it before resharpening, so that it is at least grey metal, if not shiny. That's quite a few hours work.
There are a few threads about rust removal like the one here
It would also be an ideal saw for you to have a go yourself at resharpening.

 

[MikeW]

Hi Peter,

And what a wonderful rip saw that is!

Disston made the No. 7 rip saw in pretty short lengths, so not too unusual to find one in that length. I have a Disston No. 7 that is 18" and a rip, though with smaller teeth than yours.

Someone with one of the good handsaw books will have to step in as to who that maker may be--not to mention a reliable source for you to have it sharpened.

My recommendation being that it is a rip is to do it yourself as they are very easy to learn on--and I will go so far as to say you'll probably do a better job than the previous person. Bugbear got info on his site and there is also the following site:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

Take care, Mike

 

[MixedHerbs]

The teeth look like cross-cut to me. I never even considered it being a rip saw. Or has someone done something really silly? That would explain why it is a pig to use.

See http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/MixedHerbs/DSCN0809.jpg

The rest of the blade looks better than the bit near the handle that is in the photographs. I have been using very fine wire wool to get at the blade detail.

Regards, Peter.

 

[MixedHerbs]

Having just read a bit about rip saw teeth, I may have to admit it is me who may be the nelly because I was trying to use it as a cross-cut saw.

I shall try ripping a bit of pine in the morning.

Regards, Peter.

 

[MikeW]

Hi again Peter,

If you look at the saw from the side as in the first pictures, the teeth have what is called rake--that's the amount the teeth lean back towards the handle, expressed in degrees.

In the first pictures, there appears to be very little if any rake, which would make a cross cutting difficult in all but the softest woods.

In your last message where you show the teeth looking straight down on them, one can perhaps see that there is rake and a slight amount of back to front angle, called fleam. Neither the rake nor especially the fleam appear in the pictures to be enough.

And though the fronts of the teeth where the file hit appear shiney, the tips of the teeth appear dull.

Once sharpened properly--or just better than it was--and this saw should cut well.

Take care, Mike

 

[MixedHerbs]

Thank you very much for all the responses.

Well, I tried it on a bit of pine and yes it works a darn sight better as a rip saw! I now feel very embarrassed at not knowing what a rip saw looks like.

Not as elegant to use as I would wish, but I think with a bit of tuning it might be good. I will buy a couple of files and study the saw web site mentioned earlier and have a try. I am quite surprised at the large kerf width.

The main wood I use is oak, so I will need to see if any angles need tweaking.

Meanwhile, has anyone any idea of the saw's age and history? Although I have no intention of selling it, I am curious as to its possible value.

Regards, Peter.

 

[Anonymous]

Peter

Not sure if you know this but I was told that "Warranted Superior" saws are Disstons that were slightly below their top standard and so sold on with Warranted Superior medallions by other companies.

I was also told that the galoots like to describe them as "Warren and Ted, the Superior Brothers"

 

[bugbear]

Given the length of blade, and size and rake of the tooth, I'd call cross cut.

A rip has MUCH bigger teeth, and a longer blade.

Your saw is blunt and rusty. This cannot cut well.

I would remove the rust with 600 grit Sic on a block. To avoid snagging on the teeth, make a tiny rebate in a 1/2" square lath, and use it as a tooth cover; just slide the lath up so the teeth are in the rebate, and rub your sanding block on the lath.

After the rust is gone, polish with Chrome polish on 0000 wire wool.

The whole rust removal thing should take less than an hour, and will be messy.

After the blade is shiny we can talk about sharpening.

BugBear

 

[MikeW]

Given the length of blade, and size and rake of the tooth, I'd call cross cut.

A rip has MUCH bigger teeth, and a longer blade.

Just as a point of information, Disston made the #7--which I don't think this one is--in either rip or CC down to 14" and up to 36" at one time. In all likelihood as with my example the teeth are of more ppi on the shorter saws as a longer saw.

I have a few rip saws in as sold original condition that are 22" or less that have between 9 and 6 1/2 ppi.

But Peter, even from the last picture shown it is unclear whether this saw was sold as a rip or cc originally. What is clear is that it is not optimal for either task. This is because...

Your saw is blunt and rusty. This cannot cut well.

But with a bit of care and restoration, I would bet it will cut well. So don't be embarrased--trust me, I have had saws sent to me that makes the condition of the teeth and shape of teeth on yours look picture perfect!

And saws can be made to be either a rip or a crosscut. I don't know how many points to the inch [ppi] your saw has for certain, but simply decide whether you want it rip or cross cut based upon which you believe you would use more.

fwiw, Warranted Superior medallions were used on many, many non-Disston saws. Most likely the cost of having branded medallions was costly. It is also said the Disston made and sold those to even their competitors. But they did use them on the so-called lesser line of saws.

Take care, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Another point regarding Warranted Superior saws. Many non-saw making companies and hardware stores often had Disston and other saw makers brand saws specifically for them.
I have a Disston #7 that was made for the Leader (horse drawn carriage makers) Company and I had a Disston #9 that was made for a large millwright firm in Chicago. Both were late 19th century and had Warranted Superior medallions. I also have a Disston #7 from the 1896-1917 era that has an etch from a hardware store that was in Topeka, KS and a Disston medallion.
So your saw may have been made for "Const Bros" rather than made by them. Just a guess.

 

[MixedHerbs]

Thank you all.

There are 5 1/2 teeth per inch. From a closer look at the blade, and a look at the diagrams on the vintage saw web site, I think the saw is trying to be a rip saw. I have done a quick test on some scrap and the saw is definitely happier cutting along the grain rather than across it.

I would love to think I have an old Disston. The trouble is, the saw has the word "Sheffield" stamped on it. Coals to Newcastle?

The saw has probably been re-branded. The blade stamp looks as though it was done late on a Friday afternoon by a school-leaver.

Anyway, the blade is polishing up well. The saw feels good in my hand and I want to see how well it can be made to cut - as a ripper.

Regards, Peter.

 

[Jake]

I would love to think I have an old Disston. The trouble is, the saw has the word "Sheffield" stamped on it. Coals to Newcastle?

I would say so, but there again I don't understand why you want it to be a Disston so much. Sheffield steel was world-famous for a reason. It is a bit like everyone drooling over Unisaws over in power tools when the English equivalent is a more sophisticated and better design and probably of better all-round quality.

 

[MixedHerbs]

I only latched onto the Disston name because I found a picture on the web of a Disston saw that was almost identical to my saw. If my saw can be attributed to a good British saw maker, I will be just as happy.

Regards, Peter.

 

[Philly]

Peter
I have just taken delivery of a Disston 7 rip saw-here's some pics...

As you can see, it's not a new one! The saw has a 26 inch blade and cuts great with the grain-as you found out, crosscutting is a no-no! :lol:
Here's a close up of the teeth....

Apologies for the gloat, hope the pics are helpful.
Philly

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Philly

Apologies for the gloat, hope the pics are helpful.
Philly

Apologising as well now. Are you turning over a new leaf? :lol:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Philly]

Neil
Must say I'm in a quandry- gloatster or grown-up :lol: :lol:
Cheers
Philly

 

[MixedHerbs]

That is handsome. My only previous experience of Disston was some 18 years ago when I bought a "Disston Select". Etched go-faster stripes on the blade, and a toffee-apple finish on the handle with a gold wheatshief design.

I didn't like it. Wobbled a lot and the kerf was ragged (and yes, this time I am sure it is a cross-cut saw because it says so on the blade).

Regards, Peter.

 

[MikeW]

Neil
Must say I'm in a quandry- gloatster or grown-up :lol: :lol:
Cheers
Philly

Say it isn't so, Philly :wink:

My favorite general purpose cross cut is a D-7, 7 ppi. It is probably half filed out. But, like some planes or other tools, it is much better than what it looks like. For heavy, hardwood it has to be my George Bishop, 8 ppi cross cut and for softer woods my George Bishop 5 ppi. Other than one 20" Disston #7 CC panel saw that I tended to use fequently.

Now for my favorite rip, honors go to two British saws, depending on what I am cutting. First is a 4 1/2 ppi Spear & Jackson, 28" blade, split nuts. For softer woods such as Poplar, the honors go to a 3 1/2 ppi Sorby, also with split nuts, also 28" blade. Mention of split nuts is to give indication of the age, though I think British saw makers used them a tad longer than American makers.

Point is, both sides of the pond made tremendous saws. My Groves & Sons back saws rival any made here, and in some ways feel better as all but one of the British back saws have a brass back and add weight to the saw. Disston made few with brass backs for the American market.

Take care, Mike

 

[Zsteve]

Peter,
I'd say that its more than likely a rip with a TPI like that and that its a typical english style hadsaw particularly with that handle and blade stamp. Not a US saw, very nice saw though.

Most of the older saws have the maker (or sellers) details stamped not etched on the side, by your description it sounds like it was stamped by hand.

Probably quite an old saw or at least old compared to most that i find. Hard to date with my resources but as a reasonable guess probably around the 1850's-1870's. Not really sure about price- dependson the buyer.

Many saw makers used a Warranted Superior medallion, some used them on secondary quality lines of saws or those that were made by the manufacturer who stamped them for a tool merchant. Disston also used warranted Superoir medallions on secondary lines and those saws made by companies contracted by Disston to make them.

check out the link to some nice english saws

http://members.brandx.net/free/websites/bbrode/woodwork/tools_gallery/handles/

Email Bob Brodie who looks after that web site with a few details and a pic and he may reply to you with some more info.

Regards
Stephen