Aftermarket blades for stanleys

[rocksteadyeddy]

With the impending refurb completion of my no 7 my brain has started to wonder to...... hhmmm maybe I could put an after market blade in! :-k
There is a No 41/2 next on the list so I`m thinking I could try it in both.(depending on what adjustments may be needed to plane)

I was just wondering what people had used, be it LN, clifton, jap laminate or other..... and what results have been achieved.
The same goes for the chip breaker really.

I`ve seen some ray isles ones on mathews site, has anyone used these, was particularily interested as they`re a bit cheeper. I`m kind of loathed to spend £50 -£60 on a new blade and chip breaker.


cheers Edd.

 

[Niles Crane]

I've a D2 blade from Ray Isles I bought for an Anant. The mouth on that is a little larger than it should be so it fits very well. I was thinking of getting a D2 for a Stanley No. 6 I have, but offering up the one from the Anant it will not fit without opening the mouth slightly.
The D2 blade is 3mm thick and, as far as I know, the 01 is the same.

 

[GraemeD]

I recently bought an O1 "thicker" blade from Ray Iles for a No4 I was refurbishing. Having tried Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Hock replacement blades, I personally prefer the feel and sharpness of an O1 over the harder A2 and D2 types. I have to say I was very impressed! The back flattened very quickly, and the edge was easy to sharpen......wispy shavings in seconds!

I'd say these blades are fantastic value and I'll certainly be getting more in the future. Plus they are made entirely in England. Ray gets them laser cut from a plate, and then all the rest of the process.....hardening, tempering and grinding....is done by Ray in his workshop, the old fashioned way. Having visited Ray's workshop and seen the vats of oil for the quenching, and the rows of little ovens for the tempering, I have to say I was impressed!

Hope that helps!
Graeme

 

[Niles Crane]

I should probably have mentioned that I don't have full ownership of the #6 otherwise I'd get the blade as it's only a tiny adjustment that's required.

I'd probably go O1 as well if I was buying again. I like the D2, but it doesn't seem as easy to get an edge as other blades. When it's sharp it's great though. I'd probably get the O1 if just for comparison.

Chip breaker on mine is from Clifton. I probably could have got the Anant breaker to work. With a small bit of work I think it would have matched the Stanley breakers, but I'd spent enough time on the plane sole, frog bed, putting an angle on the front of the mouth etc. etc. etc.

 

[GraemeD]

The D2 is marketed as a premium iron.....and A2 is always pitched as being somehow "better". D2 is a very hard steel used in die making, so once you get an edge on it, it probably lasts a really long time.

However O1 should never be dismissed as being in any way second rate. It is easier to get a really sharp edge, and to me at least the feel of the plane with an O1 blade fitted is somehow more positive. Maybe you do need to hone it a bit more often, but that whoosh as it sails through the timber is hard to beat!

Graeme

 

[Eric The Viking]

I've got a Japanese laminated blade from Axminster in my #5. I really like it, but I doubt it's better than an Isles one.

 

[jimi43]

I've got a Japanese laminated blade from Axminster in my #5. I really like it, but I doubt it's better than an Isles one.

I am itching to get one of those...but they were out of stock when I went to Sittingbourne....

Are they really good?

Jim

 

[GraemeD]

I have one of the Axi laminated ones too, and I have found the edge can chip easily. I assume it is because the steel that forms the cutting edge is hard and therefore brittle.....has anyone else with one of those blades noticed this?

Graeme

 

[Eric The Viking]

I've got a Japanese laminated blade from Axminster in my #5. I really like it, but I doubt it's better than an Isles one.

I am itching to get one of those...but they were out of stock when I went to Sittingbourne....

Are they really good?

Jim

Not bad.

I think everything depends on how well they're sharpened. It's the outer lamination that does the cutting, obviously.

The biggest nuisance for me is that they're not square. The pointy end arrived skewed WRT the slot, and the sides bevel very slightly towards the back. I'm not the first to notice this either :roll: . It means setting the blade in the jig for my Tormekkalike is a right PITA, and you're always nervous that it's slipped, as it's not actually indexed against anything at the back end (yes, I ought to make a wedge, but it's only about two degrees).

I've flattened and smoothed the base of my #5, cleaned up the frog seat, and ground the leading edge of chip-breaker and cap iron to be straight and smooth, but little else. It's far from being 'special', but it does work well.

The first time I honed the Japanese blade I got a brilliant result. On Idigbo, I got a shiny surface (you could clearly see a reflection) straight off the plane, and I could take shavings thin enough to read newsprint through. Currently it's not performing quite so well -- more window frames in horrid pine -- and I think I've got the camber a bit too severe.

It's definitely better than the standard Stanley blade was originally, but having re-tempered and hollow-ground that recently, it too is giving good results. The laminated blade does keep its edge significantly longer though.

I doubt it would beat a modern steel, especially a thick Iles one. One of my small planes is A2, and that's wicked when it's sharp, as is my Boggs-style spokeshave (O-something: I note in passing that Rutlands now identify it as Quangshen, and don't any longer describe the blade as a special steel - I'm pretty certain mine is though.).

I do like the Jap blade though, and I'm still glad I bought it.

 

[MIGNAL]

I think a lot depends on the quality of your original Stanley blade. I have an old 102 that dates back to the late 19th century, it's a very nice blade. I also have an old Acorn blade (probably 1930's) that I fitted to my Stanley 5 1/2, again a real excellent blade. Both are thin blades but they work for me.
I have one of the Ray Iles 01 blades. It's a good blade, comparable with the Veritas that i have

 

[matthewwh]

I'd steer clear of D2 for a smoothing plane iron, great for a scrub but you won't get a proper edge on it for finishing. Rays blades are excellent, Clifton are possibly the best on the market for smoothers but because they are forged rather than cut from sheet you do pay a little more for them. The QS irons are very good as well.

One bit of advice though, before you invest in the blade, change the cap iron - this is almost invariably the source of 80% of the improvement in performance, costs less and doesn't require any modifications. The clifton two piece ones are technically the best on the market as they do not impart any bending forces on the iron (which would prevent it from seating correctly on the frog). LN and QS are the next best, being very close to flat, and can be improved by reducing the lip at the pointy end. The original pressed steel ones with a big hump at the front are an abomination.

 

[yetloh]

+1 for the Japanese blade. Incomparable edge and no chipping probs when when sharpened at 30deg.

Jim

 

[Jacob]

....The clifton two piece ones are technically the best on the market as they do not impart any bending forces on the iron (which would prevent it from seating correctly on the frog). .....

Not sure I agree with that. IMHO the bend in the iron is good (i.e. sitting close at each end but high in the middle) as it increases pressure at the edge, when the lever cap is levered and the blade ends up sitting flat anyway.
As I've said many times - the Bailey design, thin blade and all, is more sophisticated than it's given credit for being.
Personally I wouldn't bother changing any blades until they are worn out, which for most people will take a lifetime or more.
I've only ever needed to change one (on a block plane).

ceers
Jacob

 

[Paul Chapman]

....The clifton two piece ones are technically the best on the market as they do not impart any bending forces on the iron (which would prevent it from seating correctly on the frog). .....

Not sure I agree with that. IMHO the bend in the iron is good (i.e. sitting close at each end but high in the middle) as it increases pressure at the edge, when the lever cap is levered and the blade ends up sitting flat anyway.

Jacob, I think your argument simply attempts to justify a lousy design. Bending the blade with the cap iron and then attempting to straighten it out again with the lever cap is hardly sophisticated engineering design :shock:

The Clifton cap iron frequently results in better performance because, as Matthew describes, it overcomes some of the shortcomings of the bent-metal style of cap iron used with a thin blade. But I doubt that you will ever be convinced :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

....The clifton two piece ones are technically the best on the market as they do not impart any bending forces on the iron (which would prevent it from seating correctly on the frog). .....

Not sure I agree with that. IMHO the bend in the iron is good (i.e. sitting close at each end but high in the middle) as it increases pressure at the edge, when the lever cap is levered and the blade ends up sitting flat anyway.

Jacob, I think your argument simply attempts to justify a lousy design. Bending the blade with the cap iron and then attempting to straighten it out again with the lever cap is hardly sophisticated engineering design :shock:

I think the Bailey idea is to get the thin blade pinched tight at the edge end, taking advantage of the thinness and the bend and giving better performance than a thick blade. Nearest equivalent I can think of is the safety razor where the very thin Gillette blade clearly out performs the thicker trad razor, by virtue of the holding mechanics

 

[jimi43]

Absolutely Matt.

Since changing from the standard Stanley and Record cap irons on my 4 and 5 1/2 to Clifton SS ones...amazing.

Nothing better...totally agree with you.

Jim

 

[Vann]

As I've said many times...

Many times? But this is only your second post....


But wait :!: Oh no, the Grim is back :!:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[bugbear]

....The clifton two piece ones are technically the best on the market as they do not impart any bending forces on the iron (which would prevent it from seating correctly on the frog). .....

Not sure I agree with that. IMHO the bend in the iron is good (i.e. sitting close at each end but high in the middle) as it increases pressure at the edge, when the lever cap is levered and the blade ends up sitting flat anyway.

Jacob, I think your argument simply attempts to justify a lousy design. Bending the blade with the cap iron and then attempting to straighten it out again with the lever cap is hardly sophisticated engineering design :shock:

I think the Bailey idea is to get the thin blade pinched tight at the edge end, taking advantage of the thinness and the bend and giving better performance than a thick blade.

Those techniques are (of course) essential, since a thin blade needs all the help it can get. I've seen no evidence that the combination out performs a thick blade though.

Of course, the SAME techniques are used in the Norris, which also applies pressure near the cutting edge, AND has a bent cap iron... AND has a thick blade. The performance of a Norris, has (of course) been attested to by many.

Nearest equivalent I can think of is the safety razor where the very thin Gillette blade clearly out performs the thicker trad razor, by virtue of the holding mechanics

The disposable blade razor was introduced because people found sharpening too difficult, or at least inconvenient. I've not seen claims that it has superior (shaving) performance before.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, whoever you are ;-)

BugBear

 

[aesmith]

One bit of advice though, before you invest in the blade, change the cap iron - this is almost invariably the source of 80% of the improvement in performance, costs less and doesn't require any modifications. The clifton two piece ones are technically the best on the market as they do not impart any bending forces on the iron (which would prevent it from seating correctly on the frog).

On the Clifton cap irons the cut-out for the depth adjuster is in a different place than Stanley or Record parts. On a normal Stanley plane this means that it just about runs out of adjustment.

 

[yetloh]

Personally I wouldn't bother changing any blades until they are worn out, which for most people will take a lifetime or more.
I've only ever needed to change one (on a block plane).

ceers
Jacob

Surpised this has gone unchallenged. In my experience most standard Stanley and Record blades are rubbish - rubbish, that is, if you want a really good edge that will last any time at all and that is surely a necessity for anyone seeking to do really good work.

Jim