A theory on the origin of handsaw nibs

[Mirboo]

Attached below are some scans from the December 1959 edition of Woodworker magazine. The scans are from an article that puts forward a theory on the origin of handsaw nibs. It is an interesting theory and I thought some of you might like to read it.

The first scan below is a complete scan of the page from the magazine that featured the article in question.


Full article

If you find it a bit hard to read the text of the article with the page presented as a single scan (as above), I've sectioned it below so that it can be read more easily.


Part 1


Part 2


Part 3


Part 4


Figure 2 - The Sabot-Maker's Saw

 

[David C]

Interesting,

What have the handsaw gurus got to say?

Useful for tying on saw tooth guard or decoration?

David C

 

[Anonymous]

I heard one old codger say it was for cleaning out a kerf?, another says its for sharpening your pencil?? Might be just avvin a larf :lol: :lol:

But I'm sure I read somwhere its just a cosmetic thing and nothing more. Similar as to why fence's on wooden plough planes are done with a moulding instead of just plain?
If they wanted to include a fixing point for a blade guard wouldnt it have been a lot easier to punch a simple round hole near the toe instead of the elaborate nib shape?

 

[Frank D.]

Not to mention that the nibs are pointing the wrong way to be of any use. Surely both nibs (the one on the blade and on the handle) couldn't have been reversed in the evolution of hand saws. There is also no proof in the article that saws like the one pictured were in any way predecessors of saws with nibs as we know them today.

 

[MikeW]

Not a guru here...The writer of the article is speculating just as we need to. As far as I know, no written text mentions the nib other than as decorative.

The oldest saws I have had in hand with nibs intact are mid to later 18th century saws, as well as many examples with busted off nibs. That people have used them for things like starting kerfs is about the only way I can think of that a nib would bust off. That they bust off so easily to me says they are not design for this activity.

There are other ways to establish a kerf for a coarse saw which are a bit more efficient. My grandfather, when dealing with timber framing beams, would use a single-bevel hatchet on the far edge. A single whack on the line establishes a heck of a kerf with which to start a saw.

Take care, Mike

 

[Mirboo]

I am far from being a guru on all things saw. I just thought the article put forward an interesting proposition and was keen to read the comments of others on this forum who know more about saws than me (i.e. most of you). I for one had never seen pictures of a saw like the sabot-maker's saw that is featured in the article.

Thanks for your responses.

 

[MikeW]

I probably should have added the writer actually had a thought out rationale for the conjecture--something lacking in other texts where a nib is mentioned [just not explained as to *why* the statement was made].

When people in the mid-1800s don't know and chalk up a nib to tradition and decorative purposes, just not sure it is something we'll ever know for certainty.

The only guards I have used was a piece of ply or scrap I cut a kerf into and used a piece of an old tire's innertube to fashion a strap from. Didn't make use of the nib. Holds well though.

Take care, Mike

 

[bugbear]

Not a guru here...The writer of the article is speculating just as we need to. As far as I know, no written text mentions the nib other than as decorative.

The oldest saws I have had in hand with nibs intact are mid to later 18th century saws, as well as many examples with busted off nibs. That people have used them for things like starting kerfs is about the only way I can think of that a nib would bust off. That they bust off so easily to me says they are not design for this activity.

I bought a saw yesterday, mainly on the strength of a rather nice handle.

It's 22" long, split nut, 7 TPI, straight back; I think it's quite old

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=5137
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=5136

It has a nib

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=5135

Anyway, the nib is both ugly and useless. Or (in less emotive language) I do not believe that a company who put such elegant shaping and proportion into the handle had elegance in mind when they made the nib.

Further, the damn thing is tiny and weak. I cannot think of a single use for it.

In the words of Time Team, that only leaves - "ritual". In other words, nibs may once have had a significance, but later nibs are merely "symbols" of real nibs (whatever they were), like a bishops crook, which is NEVER the right shape for catching a sheep.

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

interesting saw there bugbear
I think its about 110-120 years old???
Has it got a stamped in, or etched makers mark on the blade?
Is it "warranted superior" in the handle name disc or is there a makers name engraved in it?

PS what level of refurb do you think you might do on it? Do you do electryolsys to get the rust off?

 

[mudman]

You know, looking at Bugbear's example, the thing that immediately springs to mind is that it is useful for an anchor point for a blade protector tied on with a bit of string. Used in conjunction with the notch in the handle, this would have been ideal. If you think about it, without the nib at the end, it would have been very difficult to keep any protection held over the teeth.

Apparently the 1919 Disston catalogue says "The "Nib" near the end of a handsaw has no practical use whatever, it merely serves to break the straight line of the back of blade and is an ornamentation only. "

Think about what we use nowadays to hold an edge protector on, either a self-clamping plastic "thingy" or a strip of wood held on with elastic bands.

Going back to 1919, I doubt the plastic thingies would have been around, but rubber bands had been in existence for 74 years and I'm willing to bet that this is what most people would have used to hold the edge protector on. This would have made the nib nearly redundant and by 1919, it became merely ornamental.

Anyway, that's my theory, probably been expounded already elsewhere, but it makes sense to me.

 

[bugbear]

You know, looking at Bugbear's example, the thing that immediately springs to mind is that it is useful for an anchor point for a blade protector tied on with a bit of string.

I agree it *could* be used for this.

But if this were the manufacturer's PURPOSE, I think it would be rather more suitable than it is.

Sadly, I can convince myself that all the explanations I've seen are wrong, without having a substitute explanation that I feel is right.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

interesting saw there bugbear
I think its about 110-120 years old???

I'm not enough of an expert to know. But "around there" sounds right.

Has it got a stamped in, or etched makers mark on the blade?

Not that I can see; it was rather rusty.

Is it "warranted superior" in the handle name disc or is there a makers name engraved in it?

Warranted Superior and a crest on the medallion is all I have. AFAIK this means little.

PS what level of refurb do you think you might do on it? Do you do electryolsys to get the rust off?

So far, I've carefully removed the split nuts (marked for both hole and orientation) and used worn SiC 400 to remove the rust; the SiC was on a small aluminium block, but there is no visible (let alone legible) etch.

Cleaning/Refinishing of the handle, and further cleaning and sharpening of the blade lies ahead.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

So far, I've carefully removed the split nuts (marked for both hole and orientation) and used worn SiC 400 to remove the rust; the SiC was on a small aluminium block, but there is no visible (let alone legible) etch.

Cleaning/Refinishing of the handle, and further cleaning and sharpening of the blade lies ahead.

Well, time passes, time and elbow grease is expended on the 'umble workmate (tools restoration is too dirty a process for the main bench), and we arrive at...

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=5301

Another rusty tool saved from oblivion. (and what you can't see from the photos is that the teeth are nicely uniform and sharp, at 20 degrees fleam, 15 degrees rake)

BugBear

P.S. Photographic question for MikeW - how do you light your saws for photographing - a clean saw is damn near a mirror, and "a little" prone to light flare.

And yet I can even "read" the subtle grinding on this blade:

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/images/no9.jpg

 

[Adam]

What a transformation Bugbear!

Adam

 

[Alf]

Nice job, BB. =D> You don't fancy a busman's holiday down in bootiful Cornwall, do you...? :-k

Cheers, Alf

Depressed that saws seem to be going the way of decent chisels in terms of car boot availability round here.

 

[bugbear]

Nice job, BB. =D> You don't fancy a busman's holiday down in bootiful Cornwall, do you...? :-k

Cheers, Alf

Depressed that saws seem to be going the way of decent chisels in terms of car boot availability round here.

The cost was right, at 1.00 GBP, so I couldn't just walk away although I do have "enough" saws.

Time spent was around 80 minutes for blade rust removal, 50 mins for handle cleanup, 15 mins for split nut, 40 minutes to shape/sharpen.

BugBear (who still wants to know how Mike does those photos)

 

[Colin C]

Hi BB

How did you remove the rust as I have a tenon saw that needs it but dont much

 

[MikeW]

...who still wants to know how Mike does those photos)

I feel way more honored than I should be.

Cut apart carboard box [ends up a back and two adjustable wings] sitting on my wife's cabinet sewing machine, black velvet draped over the whole, and 3 lights.

Two from the back, positioned about 11 and 1 o'clock [maybe a slightly more oblique angle] off the two back corners. Both these lights have part of an old white shirt as difusers. Both point down to about the far corners.

One light 5 feet away pointed at the ceiling to reflect down at the front of the saws. Center ceiling room light. All lights are compact flouresents, but fairly high output, except the main room's light which is a 20 watt.

But I have to tell you, the reason for the bluish spectrum on some saw blades which never gets removed is due to the bedroom being painted [gasp] purple--the ceiling is white. While Photoshop removes some/most of the color cast, not all is removed. Best photos are from when it is dark outside as the purple is less/not an issue.

Take care, Mike

 

[MikeW]

Nice job on the saw, BB!

Of course, after I go back and see there was more new posts to the thread, I see that while the set up was mentioned, nothing else.

Diffused light is most of the issue. Nothing "bright" pointing at the blade, just lots and lots of light. Light flare is difficult to remove and to me isn't worth doing anymore. So avoidance is what I aim for.

Once into Photoshop, the pictures are simply cleaned and cropped. Usually a pass or two through the sharpening filter and then unsharp mask. They look oversharpened.

Then I usually correct the color, beginning with color cast of the steel. If this alters the wood, then I bring down the saturation. Usually the last thing before image size is the levels, usually pumping up the lower and bringing down the upper, though mid range can go either way.

Once the image size is brought down from the 2k+ pixel width to usually 480 p wide, it compresses the pixels and blends them back in a bit. To the point I often need to sharpen once more.

Here's an image as it came off the camera, simply resized:

And after processing:

I have no real idea why that day the saws came out so yellow in the original. And it wasn't worth retaking. And, as is often the case, I don't have time for second pictures as the saws have alread gone off to the post office by the time I sit down in the evening and pull the pictures off the camera.

I apologize for being so pedantic and I fear completely full of unusable information. One thing missing is what happens to each of the sliders or settings in PS. It's a by feel thing and often different form the last photo. Even some withing the same shoot get treated different.

Take care, Mike

 

[bugbear]

Hi BB

How did you remove the rust

Slightly worn (used for SS) 400 grit (FEPA) SiC on a flat(*) metal block, lubricated by water. I use a sponge to remove the rust/sludge.

After the rust was off I went straight to polishing, with Solvol Autosol on 0 wire wool.

BugBear