A smoking ban?

[Terry - Somerset]

Higher taxation gets invested by the state into public services and also into innovation, education, research & development, support for businesses too. It's the biggest single driver of the economy.
About 46% of our GDP is in the public sector.

For 20 years between 1988 and 2008 government spending was 35-40% of GDP. Cynically one could conclude spending more has had the effect of making things worse, not better.

There are some longer term large projects which need public investment. Equally the private sector is able to take risks, innovate, respond rapidly to changing conditions in a way which the public sector are incapable. A vibrant economy needs both.

That government spends taxes raised well is palpable nonsense - but they do spend it! It often places politics above common sense in a way the private sector does not.

I see you are one of the defenders of the wealthy! I hope they are grateful.

I am not defending the wealthy, nor am I one of them. I am, like ~50% of the voting public, keen to protect my right to choose how I use my "wealth" and "income". Save for those things which are clearly better as a public good, I do not want to not rely upon the government to spend it for me.

There's more of them about than you think, you shouldn't believe what they are telling you!

Dangerous ground - if you don't like the answer call it a conspiracy.

You seem a bit bewildered?

I am certainly not bewildered. I at least accept that others may have different views and do not regard as bewildered all those who disagree. Confused maybe .....

As a democracy we all have a right to a view, exercise it with our vote, and need to accept the outcome.

 

[Sachakins]

Having worked in the NHS on the non medical side, after many years in private industry, it was staggering the sense of priorities around budgets was.
I.e. towards the end of one financial year, I forecast a £400,000 underspend coming in the IT and information department, through changes and operations I'd help develop.
To me this was a benefit that could be better used in a medical care department!

But, rather than transfer the underspend, I was told we couldn't undershoot the budget, where not allowed to reallocate non medical budgets to medical departments AND 8f we didn't send that money, then next tears budget would be cut.

It was then a made it a mad March dash to spend the underspend, so had to source, invoice and have installed IT equipment into community care and primary care units, much of which remained idle or little used before end of financial year.

Coming from private industry, I found this abhorrent, but after 5 years in that environment kicking against the culture, trying to push for change I became so stressed and burnt out pushing water up hill, and the heart attack it brought on at 40 years of age, I had to walk away.

To be honest don't think a lot has changed, they still appear to be working on electronic patient records integration with primary care and the wider patient care needs, but the gulf between primary care from GPS, secondary care from hospitals and social care seems just as vast as 20 years ago.

 

[RogerS]

Having worked in the NHS on the non medical side, after many years in private industry, it was staggering the sense of priorities around budgets was.
I.e. towards the end of one financial year, I forecast a £400,000 underspend coming in the IT and information department, through changes and operations I'd help develop.
To me this was a benefit that could be better used in a medical care department!

But, rather than transfer the underspend, I was told we couldn't undershoot the budget, where not allowed to reallocate non medical budgets to medical departments AND 8f we didn't send that money, then next tears budget would be cut.

It was then a made it a mad March dash to spend the underspend, so had to source, invoice and have installed IT equipment into community care and primary care units, much of which remained idle or little used before end of financial year.

Coming from private industry, I found this abhorrent, but after 5 years in that environment kicking against the culture, trying to push for change I became so stressed and burnt out pushing water up hill, and the heart attack it brought on at 40 years of age, I had to walk away.

To be honest don't think a lot has changed, they still appear to be working on electronic patient records integration with primary care and the wider patient care needs, but the gulf between primary care from GPS, secondary care from hospitals and social care seems just as vast as 20 years ago.

I think you'll find that hospitals and social care is pretty well integrated up in Northumberland. As is the GP stuff.

 

[Keith Cocker]

As a democracy we all have a right to a view, exercise it with our vote, and need to accept the outcome.

I confess to finding it very hard to accept the outcome of “democratic “ votes based on Ill-informed views. Brexit anyone?

 

[Jester129]

It appears that some people haven't learned the life lesson: You can't always get what you want, sorry. I learned this as a youngster, and several thousand times in the intervening years!
You have to take the 60grit with the 6,000grit

 

[Fergie 307]

Having worked in the NHS on the non medical side, after many years in private industry, it was staggering the sense of priorities around budgets was.
I.e. towards the end of one financial year, I forecast a £400,000 underspend coming in the IT and information department, through changes and operations I'd help develop.
To me this was a benefit that could be better used in a medical care department!

But, rather than transfer the underspend, I was told we couldn't undershoot the budget, where not allowed to reallocate non medical budgets to medical departments AND 8f we didn't send that money, then next tears budget would be cut.

It was then a made it a mad March dash to spend the underspend, so had to source, invoice and have installed IT equipment into community care and primary care units, much of which remained idle or little used before end of financial year.

Coming from private industry, I found this abhorrent, but after 5 years in that environment kicking against the culture, trying to push for change I became so stressed and burnt out pushing water up hill, and the heart attack it brought on at 40 years of age, I had to walk away.

To be honest don't think a lot has changed, they still appear to be working on electronic patient records integration with primary care and the wider patient care needs, but the gulf between primary care from GPS, secondary care from hospitals and social care seems just as vast as 20 years ago.

Ah, Mad March, made me grin. Reminded me of the many times we had exactly the same situation, also public sector. One year there was a big under spend on furniture. Move this money to another area that actually needed it, don't be daft. Everyone got a new office chair, nothing wrong with the existing chairs, which ended up in a skip. But you had to spend the money!

 

[paulrbarnard]

I confess to finding it very hard to accept the outcome of “democratic “ votes based on Ill-informed views. Brexit anyone?

Aren’t all views I’ll-informed if they don’t agree with yours?

 

[Jacob]

Ah, Mad March, made me grin. Reminded me of the many times we had exactly the same situation, also public sector. One year there was a big under spend on furniture. Move this money to another area that actually needed it, don't be daft. Everyone got a new office chair, nothing wrong with the existing chairs, which ended up in a skip. But you had to spend the money!

But the same things happen in the private sector. Some of them even go bust!

 

[John Brown]

It's true, the same thing does happen in the private sector. Maybe not universally, but certainly goes on.

 

[niall Y]

I confess to finding it very hard to accept the outcome of “democratic “ votes based on Ill-informed views. Brexit anyone?

Or even the death of Socrates. Democracy doesn't always get it right.

 

[John Brown]

"Democracy is the idea that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it - good and hard".
The sage of Baltimore, H.L. Mencken.

 

[worn thumbs]

But the same things happen in the private sector. Some of them even go bust!

Maybe its time we made it possible for the elements of the public sector that grossly underperform to go bust.Not sure how it could be done,but the prospect might focus a few minds.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe its time we made it possible for the elements of the public sector that grossly underperform to go bust.Not sure how it could be done,but the prospect might focus a few minds.

It's a myth that the public sector grossly underperforms. Quite the opposite as a rule.

 

[Max Power]

I remember on occasion years ago going to the doctor on a Monday morning when the waiting room was full of people queueing for their sicknotes - you couldn't see the other end of the building for smoke. I remember as a child my mother taking me to the doctor and both of them smoking Senior Service. Really health giving.

I grew up in a cloud of smoke, both my parents were chain smokers and died early for it.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I worked for ~20 years in the private sector (manufacturing and engineering) and then ~20 years in the public sector in mainly middle and senior management roles. I found material differences in culture, possibly driven by timescales and impacts on attitudes towards risk.

Nations and governments operate on generational timescales - foreign relations, infrastructure investment, defence capability, social policy etc etc need multi decadal strategies. The risk of failure needs to be minimised and ideally zero.

Many often spend an entire career in the public sector. Career prospects at middle and senior levels rest on relationships developed over time and avoidance of error.

It is process and compliance driven, anxious to avoid negative public scrutiny. The result is adherence to box ticking, documentation, limited delegation, approvals processes etc.


The private sector operates on shorter timescales. Sometimes too short driven by the next annual report or dividend, but understandably by product and market development cycles. Typically less than a decade and in some sectors just a few years.

Success is determined by the capacity to respond rapidly to changing circumstances in staffing, investment, markets. It requires substantial delegation of authority and accountability, quality financial management etc.

Even the best managed businesses in the private sector recognise that pragmatic management at times needs to take precedence over process. Implicit in the management of risk is that some businesses fail.

In summary - The behaviours of enterprises operating in the public and private sectors are quite different - expecting either to be proficient at the role of the other is unrealistic. Analogies - Festool would struggle to make a £20 drill or £30 router, or Clifton a £40 No5 bench plane.

 

[John Brown]

Maybe its time we made it possible for the elements of the public sector that grossly underperform to go bust.Not sure how it could be done,but the prospect might focus a few minds.

Maybe it's time we stopped bailing out banks and insurance underwriters, maybe it's time we tried to get money back from fraudulent PPE suppliers. Maybe it's time for a cigarette.

 

[worn thumbs]

Maybe it's time we stopped bailing out banks and insurance underwriters, maybe it's time we tried to get money back from fraudulent PPE suppliers. Maybe it's time for a cigarette.

I agree with almost all of that.Surely you know the cigarette won't be good for you.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Aren’t all views I’ll-informed if they don’t agree with yours?

No. Views are Ill-informed if they derive from dodgy information, lies , misunderstandings, manipulation or sheer stupidity.

 

[John Brown]

I agree with almost all of that.Surely you know the cigarette won't be good for you.

Just trying to pull the thread back to topic..

 

[Tom K]

No. Views are Ill-informed if they derive from dodgy information, lies , misunderstandings, manipulation or sheer stupidity.

What you are saying is you can’t accept an outcome you don’t like with any grace and feel the need to insult the winners