Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Sorry for your loss but surely you should be pleased that your wife received a slight excess of care, rather than the opposite?
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A smoking ban?
- Thread starter Phil Pascoe
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
It's amazing how people soak up the mindless privatisation propaganda. We'd still have to pay for it you know, through taxation but much expensive, not least because of the deliberate under funding of recent years, intended to make privatisation appear attractive.
The rag-tag of private firms taking over, many foreign and many American, would make enormous profits and provide a much worse service - just as they have with all the public services privatised in recent years.
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Phil Pascoe
Established Member
You made a non political observation political. Can't resist, can you?
Tris
What am I doing here?
The problem for the NHS is it can do more things for more people for more years than was ever envisaged at its inception.
It now needs someone to have the guts to say that's all we can do with what is available, anything above 'x' you'll have to pay for. Used to be if you were over 70 then good luck getting any major ops, weren't deemed a worthwhile use of resources but who'd dare say that now?
I guess these days it's a question of can you get a major op in time, regardless of age. The govt would probably call that levelling up
It now needs someone to have the guts to say that's all we can do with what is available, anything above 'x' you'll have to pay for. Used to be if you were over 70 then good luck getting any major ops, weren't deemed a worthwhile use of resources but who'd dare say that now?
I guess these days it's a question of can you get a major op in time, regardless of age. The govt would probably call that levelling up
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I was replying to your own highly political comment.
Hope this helps: The Guardian view on privatisation: the god that failed | Editorial.
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Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Except it was political only in your left wing mind. If the NHS were started in 1948 by the Tories you'd be shouting from the rooftops what a shittshow it is.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
NHS is about the most political thing you could comment on in the UK. It wouldn't be here at all if people hadn't "idolised" it from a long way back.
Difficult to imagine! People were "shouting from the rooftops what a shittshow it was." before it was nationalised.
Funny how privatised water industry has become literally a shittshow! That's privatisation for you!
https://www.carvemag.com/2022/03/94491/
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selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
A major problem with the NHS now is bed-blocking. I had the misfortune of spending two weeks in hospital this summer and while the treatment I received was fantastic my stay was blighted by the number of elderly patients with dementia that had obviously been dumped there by relatives at the end of their tether. Patients who were likely to kick off at any time of the day or night screaming at the top of their voices and in one case becoming so violent the ward had to be locked down until security guards could come and deal with him. Frightening enough for me, a relatively robust 72 years old, but must have been terrifying, in the middle of the night, for frail old ladies on the ward. Really noisy and stressful. It was such an assault on the senses that I have never been so relieved to get home and crawl into my own bed.
These poor people should be in specialist care homes but there are long waiting list for them. The nursing staff were endlessly patient with them but it must be hugely frustrating for them because a lot of their time is spent dealing with them and that's not what they signed up for.
Out of about 20 patients on my ward - a general surgical ward - four or five of them had dementia. This is just another example of privatisation by stealth. Fill the beds up with people who should be elsewhere, make the waiting lists for hospital treatment longer and get those who can afford surgery privately to pay for it out of frustration.
These poor people should be in specialist care homes but there are long waiting list for them. The nursing staff were endlessly patient with them but it must be hugely frustrating for them because a lot of their time is spent dealing with them and that's not what they signed up for.
Out of about 20 patients on my ward - a general surgical ward - four or five of them had dementia. This is just another example of privatisation by stealth. Fill the beds up with people who should be elsewhere, make the waiting lists for hospital treatment longer and get those who can afford surgery privately to pay for it out of frustration.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Bed blocking? Certainly. I was in hospital for two months (if I wasn't desperate to get out I could have been there for a further six) and three others in my ward of four were only there because their homes weren't deemed suitable for their return.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I've been in a few times over the years, courtesy of NHS but via the privatised subsidiaries. Hip replacement latest. In and out in 2 days. The private sector operates many of these profitable easy routines leaving the hard work to the underfunded NHS, further undermined by lack of efficient care services and hence bed blocking. Deliberate policy - weaken, run down, sell off cheap.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
Keith Cocker
Established Member
Until it’s you or your loved ones needing care.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Is that a "problem"?
Surely it is exactly the opposite - we can now solve/cure many things which hitherto really were a problem, but are no longer.
PS and we can afford it - taxation in the UK is relatively low compared to equivalent states and we have a lot of catching up to do. How do UK tax revenues compare internationally? | Institute for Fiscal Studies
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Of course I wouldn't. I'd vote tory like a shot if they had the right policies.
It's not like supporting a football team where you stay loyal through thick and thin, it's about about the policies they could implement.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
It's not like supporting a football team where you stay loyal through thick and thin ... 
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
A huge leap after covid - who'd a thought! £105.8bn spent in 2010, £181.7bn spent 22/23. The NHS has hardly been starved of money. Have you conveniently forgotten how much of this cash goes to pay off crippling debts from financial arrangements made under the last Labour government? Total UK PFI debt for the taxpayer is over £300b for infrastructure with a value of £54.7bn.
244 new diversity managers for the NHS and at least half will be on £50k. Over half the NHS staff are non medical - you can't blame the government for that. Nonsense like his doesn't help, either.
Unfortunately Labour always right, Tories always wrong is a statement that's far from correct.
Still, Starmzy's magic money tree is even bigger than Sunaks, so all will be well soon.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Nonsense. Complete opposite of truth.
Decade of neglect means NHS unable to tackle care backlog, report says
Yes PFI another failure of loony right wing theory
Government to blame for under investment whatever the details
Blair often wrong too. Starmer not the brightest either.
The Timidity Twins!
Neither of them dare raise taxes but it is unavoidable if things are to be put right, and there is plenty of scope.
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-internationally
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At the end of the day it really does not mater who runs the NHS, we think it is free but tax payers fund it so only free to those not paying tax. Look at what happened to all the other huge nationalised industries such as the shipyards and railways, in essence they delivered but not efficiently because of the workforce culture of just turn up and it's a job for life. The NHS is an example of an inefficient nationalised industry that is big and bloated with too many bosses and not enough doers. The only other industry like this is nuclear decommissioning which again has the mentality of employing ten people to change a light bulb and that is on a good day.
Look at the NHS as an engineering problem, do not re-invent the wheel but look around and see how others are delivering better services to the people and follow suit, nothing wrong with a little plagiarism.
Look at the NHS as an engineering problem, do not re-invent the wheel but look around and see how others are delivering better services to the people and follow suit, nothing wrong with a little plagiarism.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Yes PFI another failure of loony right wing theory? Eagerly embraced by the Labour Party. It was small scale until then.
Government to blame for under investment whatever the details? The NHS is run but the NHS management - it's convenient always to blame the government but rather daft. £181.7bn since 2010 is an increase way more than inflation.
We are already taxed more than we have been since the post war years.
I look forward to the demise of this government, but unfortunately the next one will be worse.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
So it should be if we want better public services. Still low tax compared to comparable countries. Top rates lower than they were even under Thatcher.
You also looking forward for a continuing decline in the quality of health services?
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