A smoking ban?

[paulrbarnard]

Don't get who you mean by all?

Smoking, alcohol and cars…

 

[Sachakins]

Smoking, alcohol and cars…

Don't get your logic. None of those items ever equal anti social behaviour.
What does bring anti social behaviour is the actions of people behaving outside the law or guidelines.

It's people that cause anti social behaviour, not products.

It's people abusing products, and often use them to excuse their behaviour,

In your encompassing statement of ALL users is both totally inaccurate and defamatory to the majority of users, to whom it does not lead to any anti social behaviour.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Don't get your logic. None of those items ever equal anti social behaviour.
What does bring anti social behaviour is the actions of people behaving outside the law or guidelines.

It's people that cause anti social behaviour, not products.

It's people abusing products, and often use them to excuse their behaviour,

In your encompassing statement of ALL users is both totally inaccurate and defamatory to the majority of users, to whom it does not lead to any anti social behaviour.

Really?

Smoking indoors despite bans, dropping butts, inflicting secondary smoking.
Alcohol has a massive list including violence
Cars being badly parked, driven too fast, road rage.

I never said anything about all people simply that all three items can and do result in antisocial behaviour. For sure it takes a person to do it but these items sure help people to be antisocial.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Those actions which impact very adversely upon others are understandably illegal - murder, theft, exploitation of minors etc.

There are those actions whose principal impact is upon those who indulge - obesity, smoking, alcohol, gambling etc. "Principally" as drink, smoking etc can impact on family and the wider community and create additional loads for (say) NHS.

My personal inclination is to limit legislation to that which seriously protects the rest of the community (particularly the young) , and allow personal freedom of choice for other "vices".

Thus there needs to be an age threshold below which individuals cannot buy tobacco, alcohol, sharp knives, enter into onerous contracts etc.

The government should create a framework in which individual choice is promoted but the wider interests of society protected - balance is needed between individual freedoms and regulation.

 

[Sachakins]

Those actions which impact very adversely upon others are understandably illegal - murder, theft, exploitation of minors etc.

There are those actions whose principal impact is upon those who indulge - obesity, smoking, alcohol, gambling etc. "Principally" as drink, smoking etc can impact on family and the wider community and create additional loads for (say) NHS.

My personal inclination is to limit legislation to that which seriously protects the rest of the community (particularly the young) , and allow personal freedom of choice for other "vices".

Thus there needs to be an age threshold below which individuals cannot buy tobacco, alcohol, sharp knives, enter into onerous contracts etc.

The government should create a framework in which individual choice is promoted but the wider interests of society protected - balance is needed between individual freedoms and regulation.

Those laws and age limits exist, but are poorly or not enforced, so easily flouted without prospect of consequences.

 

[Sachakins]

Really?

Smoking indoors despite bans, dropping butts, inflicting secondary smoking.
Alcohol has a massive list including violence
Cars being badly parked, driven too fast, road rage.

I never said anything about all people simply that all three items can and do result in antisocial behaviour. For sure it takes a person to do it but these items sure help people to be antisocial.

You just proved entirely what I said, it's those not abiding by the rules that are behaving in an anti social manner.
If I follow the rules, don't purchase or use these items in an illegal manner, purchase said items legally and pay the duty and taxes as required, then on what basis should I be penalised. You imply its a cost to the wider community, in NHS costs, care costs increased use of services etc. But so is general old age, we are living longer, causing burdens on services, do you also think that infirmity by old age is burdensome, maybe a euthanasia program would be your solution?

 

[paulrbarnard]

You just proved entirely what I said, it's those not abiding by the rules that are behaving in an anti social manner.
If I follow the rules, don't purchase or use these items in an illegal manner, purchase said items legally and pay the duty and taxes as required, then on what basis should I be penalised. You imply its a cost to the wider community, in NHS costs, care costs increased use of services etc. But so is general old age, we are living longer, causing burdens on services, do you also think that infirmity by old age is burdensome, maybe a euthanasia program would be your solution?

I really have no idea where you are going with this. You seem to be imagining what I said. Surprisingly this isn’t about you. .

 

[Scruples]

Perhaps the biggest problem with the NHS is the NHS?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As someone said several years ago in one of the national papers - the biggest obstacle to the NHS's improvement is the people who idolise the NHS.

 

[trvlr]

Part of the current NHS problem and waiting lists is caused by many who feel it’s there to accommodate, support, sed patients’s self abusive life style; e.g. obesity, and unwillingness to adopt an an intelligent approach to individual health, and often going to A&E for attention to things they could easily resolve at home. Add to this the reduced access to a local GP and the alleged high numbers of appointments there which are not attended, small wonder the NHS creaking…

Nurses work excessive hours, often with minimal meal breaks and are paid lower hourly rate than agency staff. This agencies are there to make a profit and so by milking the NHS; they charge the NHS a lot more than they pay to staff they provide to the NHS.

The NHS has been under funded, under resourced for years, so small wonder it’s in the state it is today. Closure of local “cottage hospitals” and they were often called and also closure of many A&E facilities elsewhere also contributes to current situation.

The model for health care in Canada (varies a little across the Provinces) would stand some serious study and likely improve the situation for a public health service, without going down the road of the horrendous system in the USA; which latter is there to ensure HMSs, and drug companies make huge profits whilst many in need of proper care end up deep in debt, often homeless and allegedly even sleeping In a car or otherwise homeless.

Healthy life style and an educated awareness of simple home remedies etc. ought to part of a modern educational system, but for the most part it ain’t and one sees it the state of the children today; often over weight, into all manner of junk, additive rich food etc.. There is a report today on Sky News web site about the effects of processed food: an issue long flagged up in the past and dismissed as scare tactic, and crank reporting…

 

[Spectric]

the biggest obstacle to the NHS's improvement is the people who idolise the NHS

What might have been fit for purpose when first created does not mean that it remains fit for purpose as times change and to be effective any business needs to change with the times. If you are running a building firm then you want builders not fishmongers and this is where the NHS has come off the rails, it employs too many non medical staff who push paper and talk shietee with meaningless jobs.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend retired as a nurse some ten years ago. She told me that the same year she retired the hospital had employed a "pillow manager". Before this if they needed an extra pillow, they rang a porter, who would fetch the pillow. Then they had to ring the pillow manager ........ who rang the porter and told him to fetch the pillow. He was on about the same wage as she was.

 

[Blister]

I now think my early days smoking was stupid of me , Gave up after watching a hard hitting
Video on TV , That was 38 years ago , Not had one since , Do I want one ? No I don't.

 

[Sachakins]

Part of the current NHS problem and waiting lists is caused by many who feel it’s there to accommodate, support, sed patients’s self abusive life style; e.g. obesity, and unwillingness to adopt an an intelligent approach to individual health, and often going to A&E for attention to things they could easily resolve at home. Add to this the reduced access to a local GP and the alleged high numbers of appointments there which are not attended, small wonder the NHS creaking…

Nurses work excessive hours, often with minimal meal breaks and are paid lower hourly rate than agency staff. This agencies are there to make a profit and so by milking the NHS; they charge the NHS a lot more than they pay to staff they provide to the NHS.

The NHS has been under funded, under resourced for years, so small wonder it’s in the state it is today. Closure of local “cottage hospitals” and they were often called and also closure of many A&E facilities elsewhere also contributes to current situation.

The model for health care in Canada (varies a little across the Provinces) would stand some serious study and likely improve the situation for a public health service, without going down the road of the horrendous system in the USA; which latter is there to ensure HMSs, and drug companies make huge profits whilst many in need of proper care end up deep in debt, often homeless and allegedly even sleeping In a car or otherwise homeless.

Healthy life style and an educated awareness of simple home remedies etc. ought to part of a modern educational system, but for the most part it ain’t and one sees it the state of the children today; often over weight, into all manner of junk, additive rich food etc.. There is a report today on Sky News web site about the effects of processed food: an issue long flagged up in the past and dismissed as scare tactic, and crank reporting…

You do realise that these "agency staff" comprise mainly of existing nurses, who work on what's still known as "the bank staff".
I've seen nursing staff who work only 3 or 4 days as NHS staff, then do 2 days on the bank, sometimes on same ward and even the same shift. But as a bank nurse, and depending on the grade rate charged, their duties are restricted, so if a nurse who during NHS days may administer an intravenous injection, is working on the bank at say a bank grade 3, cannot perform the same injection, it would require that the bank grade to be at another level.
This is no reflection on the nursing staff, simply that the hospital decides what grade rare it wants to pay and if the chose a cheaper grade rare then this lower rate dictates what can and cannot be done.
And if the staff, who is readily qualified, was to carry out procedures beyond that bank grade charge rate, would be at risk.

The bank system is archaic, but it was used historically to help manage unexpected rise in nurses needed when demand fluctuated. So as not to carry excess staff when demand dropped back to normal.

Sadly today I believe its used just to meet budgetary full time staffing levels.

Yes it's short sighted for sure, but unless they recruit staff on a better contract of pay and hours and conditions, there are nurses who rely on bank work to achieve a true living wage.

It's so sad that the nurses are in this position, they don't deserve it, they do deserve not only better pay and conditions, but more structured working week, the deserve a work life balance that they don't get today, rather the whim of a bureaucratic budget manager, who only counts beans and doesn't give a flying fig about impact on people's lives. If they can shave 8 hours off a nursing staffs week, they believe they've done good. But good for the finance department staffing budget, they don't see the impact it has on that nurse, who now losses a regular days income, the ongoing impact too care it causes and in the end a likely rise in agency cost, that that ward needs to fill the gap.

The only see the £95 reduction in the contracted staff budget, they won't even see the £195 rise in the agency budget, because that's not their problem.

Budget ring fencing and budget control is a self serving monster, ie as long as its off my budget I don't care if your budget cops for it.

The budget mentality seems to be none holistic approach in the NHS, especially at department level.

 

[XTiffy]

Having experience of four hospitals and two doctors surgeries in the past few years, I do not believe the NHS is underfunded. I absolutely agree that nurses should be paid more (though I am surprised that so many are very overweight).The management is topheavy, cuts corners (food and cleaning). Having had surgery eight weeks ago a recent visit to chemists to collect painkillers, my wife was presented with two carier bags full of dressings etc. that we believe were a mistake. Neither they or the Doctors will take them (all still sealed in their packaging). As I had a new knee joint the surgery did not have a long enough dressing to cover the wound, so used two! Now I have loads that they won't take.
How true is the quote 'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men (Douglas Bader?).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Budget ring fencing and budget control is a self serving monster, ie as long as its off my budget I don't care if your budget cops for it ...

Between the NHS and the social services, also.

 

[paulrbarnard]

You do realise that these "agency staff" comprise mainly of existing nurses, who work on what's still known as "the bank staff".
I've seen nursing staff who work only 3 or 4 days as NHS staff, then do 2 days on the bank, sometimes on same ward and even the same shift. But as a bank nurse, and depending on the grade rate charged, their duties are restricted, so if a nurse who during NHS days may administer an intravenous injection, is working on the bank at say a bank grade 3, cannot perform the same injection, it would require that the bank grade to be at another level.
This is no reflection on the nursing staff, simply that the hospital decides what grade rare it wants to pay and if the chose a cheaper grade rare then this lower rate dictates what can and cannot be done.
And if the staff, who is readily qualified, was to carry out procedures beyond that bank grade charge rate, would be at risk.

The bank system is archaic, but it was used historically to help manage unexpected rise in nurses needed when demand fluctuated. So as not to carry excess staff when demand dropped back to normal.

Sadly today I believe its used just to meet budgetary full time staffing levels.

Yes it's short sighted for sure, but unless they recruit staff on a better contract of pay and hours and conditions, there are nurses who rely on bank work to achieve a true living wage.

It's so sad that the nurses are in this position, they don't deserve it, they do deserve not only better pay and conditions, but more structured working week, the deserve a work life balance that they don't get today, rather the whim of a bureaucratic budget manager, who only counts beans and doesn't give a flying fig about impact on people's lives. If they can shave 8 hours off a nursing staffs week, they believe they've done good. But good for the finance department staffing budget, they don't see the impact it has on that nurse, who now losses a regular days income, the ongoing impact too care it causes and in the end a likely rise in agency cost, that that ward needs to fill the gap.

The only see the £95 reduction in the contracted staff budget, they won't even see the £195 rise in the agency budget, because that's not their problem.

Budget ring fencing and budget control is a self serving monster, ie as long as its off my budget I don't care if your budget cops for it.

The budget mentality seems to be none holistic approach in the NHS, especially at department level.

A lot of nurses like the flexibility of having a regular shift and the ability to manage additional hours through bank work.

 

[Fordgate1]

The administration costs in the NHS massively increased when the government introduced the policy of the "money follows the patient", accountants and clerks became involved with every move from primary care to hospitals to specialist services. Money was diverted from medical and nursing care. The free at point of entry policy was cheap and effective.

 

[Jester129]

You wouldn't believe the amount of liquid food (I forget the name, my brain is still like mush) that the chemist couldn't have back and I had to bin when my wife passed away at the end of March, I had to split it into two loads as the wheelie bin wouldn't have moved with all of it in there.
Complete waste of (probably) £200 worth. Rules.

 

[Jacob]

As the NHS has become more and more privatised the waiting lists have got longer. Has anybody else noticed this?