A little truth for a change.

[Jacob]

Which is extremely untypical in terms of the overall history,

Yes but so what - we are talking of our own history and in particular the last 200 years and whether or not we can undo the damage we've done..

 

[Jacob]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/series/the-age-of-extinction

 

[Fergie 307]

Yes but so what - we are talking of our own history and in particular the last 200 years and whether or not we can undo the damage we've done..

The problem I have Jacob is with the view you, and many others, seem to hold that the Holocene period of stability would have continued ad infinitum were it not for our activities. That argument seems to suppose that if we can undo the damage we have done, then all will be well.

This is ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of the knowledge we have of past climate changes, which cannot be attributed to man.

Now I grant you that whatever happens naturally may be at a pace that is of little interest to you or I, but what if it has already started, greatly exacerbated and accelerated by us, but happening anyway?

As far as I can see there is little scientific consensus on the exact causes of the frequent past changes in global temperatures, and so very difficult to predict the future in that respect. If you had asked the scientific community 50 years ago, "when will the Holocene end, and why", I suspect you would have got a variety of different theories, none of which would have any certainty of being accurate, a new ice age being one example.

I'm not suggesting for one moment that we should not try and reverse the damage we have caused, this is an essential first step. But we do need to consider what might happen if, having done that, the climate continues to change in ways that are beyond our control. This will happen, the only thing in doubt is the timescale.

My argument would be that mans contribution to climate change is a done deal from a scientific perspective, even if convincing people of it is another matter. In my view the scientific community should now be much more focussed on trying to establish a better understanding of the longer term patterns of climate change that occur quite naturally, so that we can try and get an informed idea of what might happen next.

Of course if we take a reality check then the likelihood is that governments across the globe will not want to suffer the short term political pain of actually doing something about it, and so will do far to little far too late, as indeed is already the case.

A depressing outlook for future generations, assuming of course we don't blow ourselves to kingdom come in the meantime, in which case it really will be a case of so what.

 

[Jacob]

The problem I have Jacob is with the view you, and many others, seem to hold that the Holocene period of stability would have continued ad infinitum were it not for our activities. That argument seems to suppose that if we can undo the damage we have done, then all will be well.

Nope. Just hoping that we can avert or modify what appears to be happening now thanks to "anthropogenic" climate change.
I'm not taking the long view as I don't expect to be around for the next few hundred/thousand years. Selfish of me I know!
In any case taking action on the long view would likely be made more difficult by the imminent effects of CC as forecast. Either way we need action now.

 

[Yorkieguy]

Yes but so what - we are talking of our own history and in particular the last 200 years and whether or not we can undo the damage we've done..

And of course we (as in the UK) can't undo the damage.

Global warming doesn't respect country boundaries. If we assume (and I don't), that global warming is wholly due to human activity, even if the UK was an uninhabited desert it would not make not a jot of difference to the climate. That's not an opinion - it's a fact that our contribution is minuscule.

That's not a good reason to carry on depleting fossil fuels or not caring about polluting the planet, but it's fanciful to assert that 'if we get our minds right' we have it within our gift to control the climate. Who do we think we are - masters of the universe?

(I wonder to what extent the hot air generated by this thread has contributed to global warming?)

 

[Jacob]

...Who do we think we are - masters of the universe?
..

No, but we do have responsibility for 200 years of reckless fossil fuel use and it is theoretically possible for us to repair the damage.

 

[John Brown]

(I wonder to what extent the hot air generated by this thread has contributed to global warming?)

Hardly at all, I'd venture to suggest. In these temperatures, unless you're participating in these futile internet arguments outside, any excess hot air should simply result in your central heating having to work less hard.

 

[Jake]

Eventually the sun will supernova turn into a red giant and the whole show is over for Earth. So why care about anything really.

 

[John Brown]

Eventually the sun will supernova turn into a red giant and the whole show is over for Earth. So why care about anything really.

So we have a few billion short years to colonise another solar system, or accept our fate. Probably more of a worry for the youngsters.

 

[Jake]

So we have a few billion short years to colonise another solar system, or accept our fate. Probably more of a worry for the youngsters.

Quite. I think I'm too short sighted to comprehend the idea this means climate change is irrelevant.

 

[Yorkieguy]

No, but we do have responsibility for 200 years of reckless fossil fuel use and it is theoretically possible for us to repair the damage.

We don’t have that responsibility - collectively, the human race as a whole does, and the fact remains that anything the UK does has such an infinitesimal effect that it’s little more than virtue signalling. We know that it’s the USA, China, Russia, India et al who need to get onside.

There’s an irony in the fact that those who so firmly say ‘we must do something right now’ (including in this thread), have lifestyles no different from anyone else. Extinction Rebellion and all the rest of them who commit criminal damage as publicity stunts and disrupt traffic etc, drive diesel cars, take the kids to school and sports events in cars when the kids could ride bikes, take long haul flights, have central heating, use mobile phones, watch TV, buy pre-packed food flown in from around the world, etc. If they truly believed what they preach, they’d behave very differently.

 

[Scruples]

One thing never mentioned, to be taken into account, is ALL the s-h-1-t that all the wars, including present ones, nuclear testing, etc, etc, etc, have pumped into the atmosphere.

And volcanoes

 

[Jacob]

We don’t have that responsibility - collectively, the human race as a whole does,

Our governments have the responsibility and it's up to us to press them on.

...

There’s an irony in the fact that those who so firmly say ‘we must do something right now’ (including in this thread), have lifestyles no different from anyone else.

No irony involved. People do what they can - the main thing is to change attitudes.

Extinction Rebellion and all the rest of them who commit criminal damage as publicity stunts and disrupt traffic etc, drive diesel cars, take the kids to school and sports events in cars when the kids could ride bikes, take long haul flights, have central heating, use mobile phones, watch TV, buy pre-packed food flown in from around the world, etc. If they truly believed what they preach, they’d behave very differently.

Presumably you yourself are doing all the right things? If not, why not?

 

[Jester129]

It matters not what we do. There's a little man in Russia that will press the button and blow the world to kingdom come just before he dies and pops off to hell.

 

[Drifter2406]

The argument about weather we are in a cooler period compared to history (Millions of years not hundreds) will forever go on, it will always cost more money. If people wanted to half the omissions and consumption because lets be honest, can this planet really sustain the plague of humans the way we are multiplying? Cut the population of the world buy a lot and the planet will have a future. We can buy a car that runs on electric with all the energy that will take to make and we will replace that every year so we can pat ourselves on the back and say how green we are but the truth is, a person over their life will take up so much resources, that one extra person using, cars, waste, food, drink and everything else we use from the day we are born till we die and times that by 8 billion, not sure whatever the UK does would make that much difference. Might be time to start making long term plans to do with population, but they won't.

 

[Yojevol]

weather

Pun intended?

 

[Drifter2406]

Pun intended?

yep

 

[deema]

The argument about weather we are in a cooler period compared to history (Millions of years not hundreds) will forever go on, it will always cost more money. If people wanted to half the omissions and consumption because let’s be honest, can this planet really sustain the plague of humans the way we are multiplying? Cut the population of the world buy a lot and the planet will have a future. We can buy a car that runs on electric with all the energy that will take to make and we will replace that every year so we can pat ourselves on the back and say how green we are but the truth is, a person over their life will take up so much resources, that one extra person using, cars, waste, food, drink and everything else we use from the day we are born till we die and times that by 8 billion, not sure whatever the UK does would make that much difference. Might be time to start making long term plans to do with population, but they won't.

Population numbers are set to decline around the world in every country by 2086 and have peeked at 10.8 million. A number of countries are already faced with population decline, South Korea being the worst affected.

 

[RobinBHM]

It matters not what we do. There's a little man in Russia that will press the button and blow the world to kingdom come just before he dies and pops off to hell.

Nah won’t happen

 

[RobinBHM]

We don’t have that responsibility - collectively, the human race as a whole does, and the fact remains that anything the UK does has such an infinitesimal effect that it’s little more than virtue signalling. We know that it’s the USA, China, Russia, India et al who need to get onside.

There’s an irony in the fact that those who so firmly say ‘we must do something right now’ (including in this thread), have lifestyles no different from anyone else. Extinction Rebellion and all the rest of them who commit criminal damage as publicity stunts and disrupt traffic etc, drive diesel cars, take the kids to school and sports events in cars when the kids could ride bikes, take long haul flights, have central heating, use mobile phones, watch TV, buy pre-packed food flown in from around the world, etc. If they truly believed what they preach, they’d behave very differently.

China Russia India all have far lower co2 per capita rates

USA has big plans to decarbonise under current leader

But anyway there is a race to develop green technology and either we are leaders or we get left behind