A little truth for a change.

[NickDReed]

It is pretty much incontrovertible that 50% (near as dammit) of the population has an IQ of less than 100. If 70% of the electorate turns out to vote - giving "an opinion" at some level or other....

Might be my ineffective brain, but I have no idea what point you're making.

 

[RobinBHM]

According to Copilot,
A 15-minute city is an urban planning concept that envisions a city where most daily necessities and services—such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure—are easily accessible within a 15-minute walk, bike ride, or public transit ride from any point in the city

How is this different from living in a small town of 20 years ago?

Because we aren’t 20 years ago.

 

[RobinBHM]

I've just read the book 'There is no Climate Crisis'.

Just about very page provides historical scientific factual evidence, of climate variations over thousands of years - long before industrial development, population growth, oil based economies and so on. What was initially referred to as 'climate change' is invariably called 'climate 'crisis'.

It's a mistake to say - as people so often do - that 'all scientists agree' etc, because any who don't agree are branded 'climate deniers', 'flat earthers' and any scientist who provides evidence-based alternative perspectives will not be published in scientific journals which are wedded to the view that there is not simply 'climate change' but an existential threat to the planet which has been created by humans and can be solved by human intervention.

Anyone wedded to that view will not entertain any other, and any debate will - as this one is doing - generate more heat than light.

"THERE IS NO CLIMATE CRISIS":

What if there is no climate crisis? What if the Earth isn't overheating? What if sea levels aren't rising? What if the polar ice caps aren't melting? What if the polar bears are thriving? What if there is no need to reduce CO2 emissions as they have little to no effect on our planet's climate?

Using 150 years of newspaper reports, temperature charts which have been doctored or even deleted, CIA documents and letters to U.S. presidents, THERE IS NO CLIMATE CRISIS reveals that, in a futile attempt to fight the non-existent threat of man-made global warming or climate change or climate emergency or climate crisis or whatever it's called this month, we are about to commit the most expensive and disastrous scientific blunder in human history.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/THERE-CLIMATE-CRISIS-David-Craig/dp/1872188176

And this:

While the Climate Always Has and Always Will Change, There Is no Climate Crisis

• September 2022
• Journal of Sustainable Development 15(5):116

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Always_Will_Change_There_Is_no_Climate_Crisis

And this:

The Death of Science: The retreat from reason in the post-modern world
'SCIENCE IS ON ITS DEATH BED':

Lies, specious argument and fraud abound in a variety of scientific endeavours including the treatment and vaccines for Covid-19. Managers and politicians have taken over where previously the scientists were in charge. They have been able to utilise the bizarre language and contradictory processes of political correctness, making themselves into the high priests of a new religion, one which spawns more politically correct managers and despises experts, but there is hope and possible answers are proposed.

Remember the Covid-19 mantra: "We're following the science".? If those who foisted that onto us really and truly believed what they would have us believe, (and enforced that view with criminal penalties), they'd have behaved in quite a different way to that which they did:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Death-Scie...a8-97db-0bf1bb43c732&pd_rd_i=1854571133&psc=1

Nothing will change.

Mmmm

It’s written by David Craig, who is part of the Daily Sceptic a website run by Toby Young, a well know conspiracy theorist.

The book might be persuasive, it doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I would like to see it peer reviewed

 

[RobinBHM]

I think there's different 'flavours' of capitalism - "slash'n'burn, devil-take-the-hindmost" vs. a more enlightened and fairer equivalent.

The problem is capitalism is driven by greed.

It’s going to be very painful

 

[John Brown]

Mmmm

It’s written by David Craig, who is part of the Daily Sceptic a website run by Toby Young, a well know conspiracy theorist.

The book might be persuasive, it doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I would like to see it peer reviewed

Truth. A word that's been so devalued by Trump, amongst others, that Phil Pascoe thinks he can start this thread claiming that his cherry picked, bias confirmation linked film is the truth, whereas in fact it's simply another point of view(it might be true, who knows? Phil doesn't). Truth is elusive, and I doubt we'll know the whole truth about CO2 and climate change until long after Phil Pascoe and I are dead, but I don't believe that should stop us from acting on the best guess. I admit that the scientific consensus could be completely wrong, but I believe it's more likely than not to be right. That, after all, is how the scientific method works, go with the best guess you have until new evidence changes your mind. Personally, I don't believe all the insinuations that climate scientists don't dare to question the status quo, for fear of losing funding, and if they do, then they don't deserve to be called scientists. Politicians and PR firms are another kettle of fish.

 

[deema]

Here we go, the smoking gun question. What is the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere right now?
What is the concentration of say Oxygen and Nitrogen?
Now, what is the thermal conductivity of each?

Now, why is this important to know? Well, the thermal conductivity of CO2 must be either massive compared to say Nitrogen or Oxygen which are both far (massively) more abundant in the atmosphere in order for it to make a significant difference.

I know, I know, the ‘Climate Change CO2 is bad’ mob know the answers, they’ve researched it, thought a whole lot about it and come to the conclusion it’s like placing a mile thick piece Kimgspan insulation around the world…..that’s what’s driving the temperature increases……no? They haven’t? They didn’t think that the actual concentration ratios and the thermal conductivity was all that important because they read a few papers peer reviewed by others who share the same opinion and at worst followed good old Greta on UTUbe?

Well. For all those wringing their hands take a few minutes, google the answers, sit back with a glass of your favourite tipple consider the results, and then after realising the impact of the numbers, then and only then start to quibble about the simple fact that CO2 IS NOT the main driver now of climate warming.

 

[deema]

Truth. A word that's been so devalued by Trump, amongst others, that Phil Pascoe thinks he can start this thread claiming that his cherry picked, bias confirmation linked film is the truth, whereas in fact it's simply another point of view(it might be true, who knows? Phil doesn't). Truth is elusive, and I doubt we'll know the whole truth about CO2 and climate change until long after Phil Pascoe and I are dead, but I don't believe that should stop us from acting on the best guess. I admit that the scientific consensus could be completely wrong, but I believe it's more likely than not to be right. That, after all, is how the scientific method works, go with the best guess you have until new evidence changes your mind. Personally, I don't believe all the insinuations that climate scientists don't dare to question the status quo, for fear of losing funding, and if they do, then they don't deserve to be called scientists. Politicians and PR firms are another kettle of fish.

Just try suggesting that there are only two genders, or that men in dresses shouldn’t be allowed in women spaces to see how quickly in almost any profession your going to find yourself unemployed and possible visited by plod. Now, biology and psychology science in this arena has been thrown out of the window. If you want to cut off your arm most countries treat you for a mental illness of body dysmorphia, but if it’s your dick, then society celebrates your intuition and would like to ensure kiddies can do it too.

Please don’t suggest science cannot be corrupted by an insane idea.

 

[Jake]

Here we go, the smoking gun question. What is the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere right now?
What is the concentration of say Oxygen and Nitrogen?
Now, what is the thermal conductivity of each?

Now, why is this important to know? Well, the thermal conductivity of CO2 must be either massive compared to say Nitrogen or Oxygen which are both far (massively) more abundant in the atmosphere in order for it to make a significant difference.

The point is that CO2 absorbs much more infrared spectral energy (ie heat being emitted back off the Earth) than oxygen and nitrogen (which don't really absorb much infrared). Don't you think this would be too obvious a point to have been missed by peer reviewed science if you were in any way right on this most basic of points?

 

[JimJay]

It’s not.

Not a privilege? Not a society? Not democratic?

 

[Scruples]

Of course it was a mistake. Look at the facts. You are out of date and left behind.

Of course we smart at the reality!
So do a lot of those who voted to leave, the ones who are brave and honest enough to admit that they were duped. What opportunities did the other Jacob actually identify, in his short tenure as Minister for Brexit opportunities (a role that has been quietly dropped since), apart from being able to sell wine in pints, and noisier vacuum cleaners?
It's a genuine question, I'd really feel a lot better if I could perceive some advantage other than blue passports.

No, I don't think so. The people made the government aware of their feelings on a whole raft of issues including the cost to the UK for belonging to an increasingly poorer club, the control of the UK by EU, immigration and border control, trade restrictions outside of the EU.

Sadly, Brexit came the pandemic, which muddied the waters and took away the clear financial benefits which, after completing our finacial responsibilities in the EU, would have left us better off sooner. The world economy worsened and foreign workers went home to look after their families which overshadowed the last 4 years.

We are in a time when many factors are pulling on the purse-strings in ways we didn't imagine in 2016. Get those issues sorted and global prosperity will return and the benefits of Brexit will begin to emerge. As it stands today, my share portfolio is still rising, and I use that as an indication of my own situation and of those generally.

I wasn't duped. I was smart enough to know the potential benefits and voted accordingly. Give the nation some credibility.

 

[deema]

The point is that CO2 absorbs much more infrared spectral energy (ie heat being emitted back off the Earth) than oxygen and nitrogen (which don't really absorb much infrared). Don't you think this would be too obvious a point to have been missed by peer reviewed science if you were in any way right on this most basic of points?

You mean, it absorbed infared just like water vapour which is also a green house gas? There is significantly more water vapour in the atmosphere than CO2, but I don’t hear any suggestions we remove water vapour from the atmosphere!
Let’s all stop using water. I support a new splinter group ‘Just Stop Water’. Ironic isn’t it?

 

[RobinBHM]

You mean, it absorbed infared just like water vapour which is also a green house gas? There is significantly more water vapour in the atmosphere than CO2, but I don’t hear any suggestions we remove water vapour from the atmosphere!
Let’s all stop using water. I support a new splinter group ‘Just Stop Water’. Ironic isn’t it?

Strawman argument
Water vapour isn’t a cause of global warming



“Some people mistakenly believe water vapor is the main driver of Earth’s current warming. But increased water vapor doesn’t cause global warming. Instead, it’s a consequence of it. Increased water vapor in the atmosphere amplifies the warming caused by other greenhouse gases.”

https://science.nasa.gov/earth/clim...ter-vapor-amplifies-earths-greenhouse-effect/

 

[Filament]

According to Copilot,
A 15-minute city is an urban planning concept that envisions a city where most daily necessities and services—such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure—are easily accessible within a 15-minute walk, bike ride, or public transit ride from any point in the city

How is this different from living in a small town of 20 years ago?

It’s not that’s kinda the point (clearly I knew that. You’re ’I Don’t want to live like that’ comment was odd as if you just mean ‘I don’t want to live in a city’ presumably you would have said that and it would have been somewhat irrelevant

As you say, the concept is very prosaic and harmless making it even more bizarre that many have decided it’s the spawn of satan and going to imprison them in their homes at pain of their imbedded (GatesCorp) microchip in their neck exploding.

 

[deema]

Strawman argument
Water vapour isn’t a cause of global warming



“Some people mistakenly believe water vapor is the main driver of Earth’s current warming. But increased water vapor doesn’t cause global warming. Instead, it’s a consequence of it. Increased water vapor in the atmosphere amplifies the warming caused by other greenhouse gases.”

https://science.nasa.gov/earth/clim...ter-vapor-amplifies-earths-greenhouse-effect/

So, are you ignoring the science that is categoric that water vapour absorbs infa red to the same extent as CO2 and is classified as a greenhouse gas. So, you prefer to pick on CO2, at a concentration of 0.04% rather than water vapour which is 0.4%? Just 10 times more water vapour…..and that has no effect?

 

[artie]

It’s not that’s kinda the point (clearly I knew that. You’re ’I Don’t want to live like that’ comment was odd as if you just mean ‘I don’t want to live in a city’ presumably you would have said that and it would have been somewhat irrelevant

I can't decipher that.

As you say, the concept is very prosaic and harmless making it even more bizarre that many have decided it’s the spawn of satan and going to imprison them in their homes at pain of their imbedded (GatesCorp) microchip in their neck exploding.

I don't want to live in a city, any city.
Least of all a fantasy city.
You must realise that a city with a supermarket, library, primary school, secondary school, university, bank etc, etc every two miles is a complete fantasy.

 

[Cobbs]

I can't decipher that.


I don't want to live in a city, any city.
Least of all a fantasy city.
You must realise that a city with a supermarket, library, primary school, secondary school, university, bank etc, etc every two miles is a complete fantasy.

Maybe not a university, but everything else should be fairly easily achievable. Still wouldn't want to live there personally though...

 

[Jacob]

Mmmm

It’s written by David Craig, who is part of the Daily Sceptic a website run by Toby Young, a well know conspiracy theorist.

The book might be persuasive, it doesn’t mean it’s the truth. I would like to see it peer reviewed

What, reviewed by another loony sceptic "peer"?
Pretty safe to say that this sort of stuff is already under intensive review by the science community, but in general, without having to churn through the tedious ideas of a flat earther.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe not a university, but everything else should be fairly easily achievable. Still wouldn't want to live there personally though...

You might if you had no vehicle, no public transport and no livelihood out there in the countryside.

 

[Jacob]

So, are you ignoring the science that is categoric that water vapour absorbs infa red to the same extent as CO2 and is classified as a greenhouse gas. So, you prefer to pick on CO2, at a concentration of 0.04% rather than water vapour which is 0.4%? Just 10 times more water vapour…..and that has no effect?

Good to see you trying to get into the science but you are still very wide of the mark!
It's easy to check facts nowadays; just google water vapour as greenhouse gas for instance.

 

[RobinBHM]

the simple fact that CO2 IS NOT the main driver now of climate warming

That is opinion stated as fact.

Unless you can provided supporting evidence, you should be phrasing your sentence as:

“In my opinion, CO2 is not the main driver now of climate warming”

I have no issue with you holding that view but I can’t accept you stating something as fact, when it is your opinion