3 Phase

[Chris Knight]

I know nothing about electricity and so this is prbably a red herring but it caught my eye when thinking about a new motor for my Myford lathe. I realise the power is less than required for the sort of woodworking machinery under consideration here but the company seems to deal in very large stuff as well. So, just in case it is remotely revelevant....

http://www.newton-tesla.com/machinist/i ... odel/model

 

[Anonymous]

I converted a 3 phase 10" Wadkin Table saw (this is one of the small sized Wadkins) about 3 years ago by replacing the motor. I was advised to get a motor of slightly higher power, partly because some companies seem to exaggerate output and partly because 3 phase motors have much higher starting torque (although this wouldn't be an issue with a table saw).


It originally had a 2HP 3 phase motor with a foot mounting, I fitted a 5HP (3HP output Cap-start cap-run) single phase
replacement purchased from Northern Tools as they were the only reasonable priced supplier we could find at the time that were able
to state the output :roll: . Turned out to be Chinese but its power output is more than ample, no slow down using a stacked dado
head.(Machine Mart now do EU made cap-run motors)

I needed a new DOL starter (Some can be converted, but I've found the cost of a replacment 240Volt coil can make it uneconomic).

The pulley had to be machined out on a lathe for the larger motor shaft, a friend did this for free.

I also had to replace the 3 drive belts as the spindle height of the new (fatter) motor was greater.

Approximate Costs:

Motor £113
Mem DOL starter £60 (there are cheaper available but they look far from ideal)
Belts £16
Rotory switch £12
Cable £20
Pulley £free (a new double pulley costs around £20, don't know the cost of a triple)
(the saw itself only cost about £50 - scrap value as it failed HSE standards on numerous counts.)

I would imagine replacing the motors on a planer thicknesser could present greater problems since you have a feed mechanism to contend with and the bigger machines often have a separate motor which would make it expensive. (I did buy a small surfacer with the intention of converting it, but I'll probably end up carting it down to the dump as although it seems to be in really good condition, I'm not overly fond of the design of the knife clamps).

I was advised by a friend with a static convertor to avoid that sort. http://www.drivesdirect.co.uk/index.htm has a price list and a little info on the various types of phase converters.

 

[Woodythepecker]

I think that getting 3 phase installed is the only way to go, and i have contacted my local power company who said that they will get back to me with a total cost to have the work done.

I will keep you updated.

Many thanks

Woody

 

[Anonymous]

I think that getting 3 phase installed is the only way to go, and i have contacted my local power company who said that they will get back to me with a total cost to have the work done.

I will keep you updated.

Many thanks

Woody

Certanly the best option if you need large capacity and / or high feed rate, however some of the smaller industrial rated machines have single phase variants, I notice there's a single phase MiniMax on Ebay at the moment (current bid £1000), although if you take into acount the costs including your time in going to inspect and test, collect, transport and offloading, and fixing any faults, unless its very local its probably not worth the trouble.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... RK:MEWA:IT

 

[Midnight]

Woody....

for a serious shop, in all honesty 3 phase is the only way to go; good call there bud.. it'll open a range of options that single phase canna begin to handle... just remember to treat it with the utmost respect; a 415v tickle hurts like a #@%$£...!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Woodythepecker]

All of you advice is much appreciated. As Mike says 3 phase is the way to go, in my particular case anyway.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I am happy to say that i have now got 4 clients on my order book, which is not to bad considering i am not even up and running yet. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Many thanks

Woody

 

[Midnight]

I am happy to say that i have now got 4 clients on my order book

aawwwwwwww....now c'monnn behave yersel... if that's nae a below the belt gloat then I donno what is...

ya jammy wee...........

:wink:

I get the feeling that when you're up and running, you'll have 4 very content clients singing your praises..

 

[Anonymous]

All of you advice is much appreciated. As Mike says 3 phase is the way to go, in my particular case anyway.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I am happy to say that i have now got 4 clients on my order book, which is not to bad considering i am not even up and running yet. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Many thanks

Woody

Nice work Woody!! Really hope the enterprise goes well for you :wink:

My only 'clients' always seem to be related to me by birth or marriage

 

[fraser]

Was there ever a conclusion to this? I am looking to get a planet thicknesser and have been offered a 3 phase Sedgwick, it will be the only three phase machine and I have no plans to install it in my shed. Would a second hand inverter or converter be best and is it just a case of plugging the converter in to the mains and plugging the thicknesser to that?

 

[cerdeira]

hi.

thers is a comprehensive article written by a very knowledgable member in this thread:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...in-the-home-workshop-updated-iss2-t35143.html
but to sum up you must ensure that:
1- the motor is dual voltage and is connected in delta mode. why? because it will then operate with 230V 3phase and most inverters output 230V.
that's usually no problem because virtually all single speed 3ph motors built today are dual voltage
2 - the inverter capacity must at least match the motor power
3 - you must bypass the starter in the machine, meaning that the inverter will be your on/off switch.

immediate benefits you wil gain from this:
1 -soft start (you can use a 3HP motor from a 10 or 13 amp supply as long as you don't load it to the limit)
2 - dc braking, you can set up the inverter to stop the motor within a period of time when switched off

 

[Wildman]

there are 4 ways to get 3 phase.
1) get the leccy company to instal it. when I had it installed years ago back in Portsmouth it was free and only got charge per metre for the cable that came onto my land. They will require a proper 3 phase installation to connect to, fused connection box and prewired sockets etc.
2) as every house in a row of houses is wired with alternate phases you could beg a connection from the houses either side of you and construct your three phase supply. But do make sure the current rating is sufficient for your needs without dimming their lights.
3) An inverter usually requires a 240Volt three phase motor and can provide variable speed control as well.
4) 240/480 three phase Converter, these come in two flavours, static and rotary, The rotary being very expencive. But either can power reasonable loads. I ran my current metalwork shop on a 3hp converter until recently. I am in the process of changing over to inverters so will have a couple of converters for sale, however not large enough for the machinery you describe.
Unless you have a dedicated industrial supply I think you will be hard pushed to power the machinery you have in mind. eyes bigger than your belly as my mother used to say. good luck and keep us informed of the eventual outcome.

 

[fraser]

Hi
Thanks very much for the reply
To sum up your post very briefly!
A 240 volt inverter would be the cheapest method, unless the leccy
company would do it for free....
Maybe the eyes are bigger than the belly but i won't be in this place for more than 5 years, so the inverter is temporary really. Other people on here have done it so didn't see why not...

 

[beech1948]

I have 3 phase in my workshop/double garage alongside my house.

My approach was to minimise the cost to the electricity board by doing the following:-

1) Bought a 3ph connection and distribution board and made the hole in the wall myself, screwed them to wall
2) Dug trench from garage to pavement
3) Got sparks to wire in 3ph connection to street cable using wire as spec'd by the electricity board thus ready to patch in. Same sparks wired up the distribution board at the same time
4) Got electricity board to cut and splice their street cable and connect, add me to their billing database and perform tests of all of the work and issue certificate.

By the way the electricity board were a pain in the ass to deal with as they wanted to know why I needed the power and were very anti at the admin level. At the technical/engineering level they were brilliant.

I did this to minimise costs, which were still high but probably cheap compared to today. This was done 12 yrs ago.

My rationale was as follows.

I needed 3ph to power some machines to help restore an MG A 1600 Twin Cam and a 1933 Rolls Royce. Both were sold on and I retired from car restoration after that and got into woodwork......old cars have lots of difficult to fix wood in them.

I was able to buy from a number of liquidations kit from Wadkin/Sagar/Wilson/Dominion which after some fairly simple restoration worked better than anything from Asia. Prices were forced up by dealers who were upset at not getting it cheap to resell expensively; there really seems to be a cabal of dealer types who expect to divvy it all up between them cheaply. I have since added a Felder combi and sold the Wadkin saw at a profit but still have the rest.

Happy...yes.

regards
Al

 

[merlin]

Hello Fraser,

I had a similar situation to you a few years ago, in the end I bought a converter from Transwave and never looked back. ( A very helpful bunch )

I now have quite a few 3 phase machines in my workshop, buying the converter opened up a new scope of machines both in price and quality.

The price of the converter has been paid back as the 3 phase machines I have bought have been cheaper than new machinery or the single phase equivalent.

One of the machines has had its problems as you may have seen but with help from Bob and Dick I hope it is now sorted! That said I have quite enjoyed getting to the bottom of it.

Cheers, Merlin

 

[9fingers]

Fraser,
If you don't want to make any changes to your machine, the converter route is the only truly plug and play method. If you can pick one up second hand, it will hold it's value and could be resold easily in 5 years time.

Bob

 

[fraser]

Such as eBay number 221037375229 ?
Shame they won't post!

 

[9fingers]

That would do nicely. They weigh in at 1/2 a hernia so not likely to find one sent by post. you would have to use a collection courier.

Bob

 

[fraser]

how much do you think would be reasonable to pay for such an item? i dont have a clue how much they are new, let alone worth second hand. postage is going to cost me £30.

 

[marcros]

one of the couriers should beat 30 quid postage.

 

[fraser]

back to the drawing board-didnt win it!




anyone got one for sale?!?