£3/400 plunge saw & rail vs £100 circular saw

[Triggaaar]

What can an expensive plunge saw and rail do that a £100 saw can't do?

I'm looking to buy my first circular saw as I need it for putting chip flooring down. A basic saw will do the job, but I don't like buying things twice, so I'm considering going for one of the posh saws for other hobby style jobs in the future, as my little workshop won't ever suit a table saw.

For under £100 there's good choice for either a Bosch, Hitachi, DeWalt or Makita 190mm ish saw.

Or for £300 there's the Makita SP6000K1 with guide rail, DeWalt DWS520KR for £350 and Mafell or Festool for £430.

With a home made straight edge and couple of clamps, can the £100 saws do the same job (albeit either not as quickly or nicely) or do those with rails offer a lot more?

Thanks for any help

PS - The saw will nearly always be for home use rather than site use.

 

[chippy1970]

I have the festool ts55 and it is worth the price to me a very accurate tool , but i still use a normal Makita circular saw for everyday use. Plunge saws and normal circ saws are quite different the only way you will know what suits you is to try them out.

The big thing with festool gear is that its all part of a system unlike many other brands.

 

[Anonymous]

Firstly the plunge saw can do one thing which other saws can't. It can plunge! On the Mafell this is due to a spring mounted riving knife.

Apart from that the rail on a mafell is fairly grippy and doesn't always need the clamps (in fact I hadly ever use the clamps). This means I can throw the rail on the board and cut.

On various plunge saws (not my older mafell) the pivot point is such that the line of the cut is the same no matter how far over you've got the saw pivotted at (if that makes sense).

On my Mafell I've got a very good fence which locks at front and back. I've used this quite a lot to cut long planks down the middle.

So in answer to your question, I think you're just paying for a better saw when you get those with rails. Not all are equal but the Mafell & Festool saws are very high quality.

Dave

 

[Karl]

Hi Trigaar

I have the Dewalt plunge saw and guide rail set.

I think it's pretty good, and does a good job of giving chip free cuts on laminate faced boards.

Having said that, in terms of power, it isn't as good as my old Makita circular saw. It doesn't feel as powerful, doesn't cut as smoothly through thicker material (worktops etc).

I'm still a bit undecided on whether the plunge saws are worth the extra cash over a normal circular saw. If I was mainly working with MDF (rather than faced boards) then I would go for a normal circular saw and home made guide rail. Working with faced boards is where the plunge saw/guide rail combo earns its money.

Cheers

Karl

 

[gidon]

Very new to the Festool TS55 but been using a Dewalt circ saw with homemade guide rails for years and you can get very good results. With veneered boards a good blade and masking tape on the cut line help a great deal.
In my brief experience of the Festool the main benefits are:
The guide can be used without clamps (I've tried various method of making the homemade guide stick but none work like the Festool rail)
If you do need to clamp the rail the method for doing so works brilliantly
And most importantly (for me on the job I'm using it for) - the cut on veneered boards is amazing - no splintering. No messing around with masking tape and far better results anyway.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Triggaaar]

Firstly the plunge saw can do one thing which other saws can't. It can plunge!

Well they can all plunge. The Hitachi I looked at didn't have a riving knife, and if I got one with a riving knife I'd probably remove it.

On various plunge saws (not my older mafell) the pivot point is such that the line of the cut is the same no matter how far over you've got the saw pivotted at (if that makes sense).

Yeah that seems to be the case on the Hitachi.

Not all are equal but the Mafell & Festool saws are very high quality.

Indeed, I am sure the Festool is a wonderful tool, there aren't many complaints - there was one on the axminster site though, aparantly you can't really use it without the rail, as you can't see the blade, which apparantly makes cutting on thin (width not depth) pieces of timber tricky?

 

[Triggaaar]

I have the festool ts55 and it is worth the price to me a very accurate tool , but i still use a normal Makita circular saw for everyday use.

What do you like about your Makita that makes you turn to that on a daily bases, rather than the FS?

 

[chippy1970]

I have the festool ts55 and it is worth the price to me a very accurate tool , but i still use a normal Makita circular saw for everyday use.

What do you like about your Makita that makes you turn to that on a daily bases, rather than the FS?

I would say use the right tool for the right job. I use the normal circular saw every day for say cutting 4'x2's and things like that where it would be akward with the TS55 as thats not what its designed for freehand cutting also if I was say cutting up a load of old rough wood in a muddy yard I wouldnt want to leave the Ts55 lying around where as I dont mind with a £120 Makita.

Horses for courses

 

[Triggaaar]

I would say use the right tool for the right job. I use the normal circular saw every day for say cutting 4'x2's and things like that where it would be akward with the TS55 as thats not what its designed for

Thanks - I can use a SCMS for that sort of thing. But both of your saws are designed for cutting lengths of ply etc, so if it's not out in the mud, I assume you choose the FS.

 

[RogerS]

.........- there was one on the axminster site though, aparantly you can't really use it without the rail, as you can't see the blade, which apparantly makes cutting on thin (width not depth) pieces of timber tricky?

I've usually got a piece of scrap wood around of the same thickness. So you just stick it under the rail and the piece you want to cut underneath the grippy part of the rail and away you go. I've cut oak floorboard trims of 40mm width quite happily using this method. The only time I use my circular saw is when I'm cutting up some tatty bit of wood and not too bothered about the cut etc.

 

[petermillard]

I used the 'home-made guide and circular saw' method for years without any major problems; when I switched to the Festool (there wasn't much else around at the time) here's how I benefitted:-

Faster - you put the guiderail down on your line and make the cut; that's it! If you're doing something tricky like a long bevel cut, then I clamp the rail, but that's pretty much the only time.

More accurate - the saw baseplate locks into the rail, so there's no chance of of the saw toe-ing in or out over a long cut.

Safer - the sharp spinny thing is only exposed when you're making the cut, and to the depth you set. And it plunges - no it really plunges, spring-mounted riving knife and everything; seriously, anyone who tries to plunge-cut with a regular circular saw is a candidate for the Darwin awards, IMHO....:shock:

There are other benefits too - dust extraction is way ahead of ordinary circ. saws for example - but those are the main ones for me. I only have the smaller TS55 saw and have no problem cutting 40mm worktops or 44mm door blanks with it, and the standard 48-tooth blade will handle just about anything.

...there was one on the axminster site though, aparantly you can't really use it without the rail...

This is the kind of knuckle-headed comment (the Axi poster, not you Trigaar!) that makes me laugh - I mean, why buy an expensive plunge saw designed for use on a rail, and then try to use it as an ordinary circ. saw??

Anyway, if you're seriously thinking about it, then try and get your hands on one and make a few cuts with it - suddenly they don't seem so expensive after that... :wink:

HTH, Pete

 

[Triggaaar]

anyone who tries to plunge-cut with a regular circular saw is a candidate for the Darwin awards, IMHO....:shock:

I don't think I'll kill myself with a circular saw, only chop off a finger or two.

There are other benefits too - dust extraction is way ahead of ordinary circ. saws for example

Do you have to buy the FS hose too (it all mounts up).

This is the kind of knuckle-headed comment

Sorry, I'm a woodworking noob

(the Axi poster, not you Trigaar!)

Oh, yes of course, silly him

why buy an expensive plunge saw designed for use on a rail, and then try to use it as an ordinary circ. saw?

I guess many of the jobs are the same, and if the FS is a stretch you might not be able to buy both (I wouldn't), but it seems others have solutions so that one tool (any of the circular saws) can do all the jobs (using scrap pieces of wood etc).

Thanks

 

[chippy1970]

I would say use the right tool for the right job. I use the normal circular saw every day for say cutting 4'x2's and things like that where it would be akward with the TS55 as thats not what its designed for

Thanks - I can use a SCMS for that sort of thing. But both of your saws are designed for cutting lengths of ply etc, so if it's not out in the mud, I assume you choose the FS.

I have a couple of sliding mitre saws but you still need a basic circular saw for ripping timber you could use the ts55 but its really a panel saw and thats what its best for.

 

[Jake]

Well they can all plunge. The Hitachi I looked at didn't have a riving knife, and if I got one with a riving knife I'd probably remove it.

Really not a good idea.

 

[jedmc571]

If you wnt to rip up timber of all sizes for general use, buy a mid range B&Q Saw, this will cover jobs like cutting up old timber, or perhaps outdoor jobs like decking where it's likely to get thrown around.

If however you want quality, accuracy, and dare I say it enjoyment ( anyone with a TS5/75 will understand :wink: ) get a Festool.

I'm a home woodworker, but I like my tools, and prefer to save till I can afford the best, I deliberated getting a TS55 for about 2 years, and then when I bought it, I questioned why I waited

The saw is so accurate, what ever depth you set, you can guarantee that's what you'll get, take time to learn its features, the only error that creeps in is yourself, and how accurately you make your marks on the workpiece.

Personally I make my mark with a sharp pencil, plunge my stanley knife blade into the mark, and pull the rail till it touches the knife, do the same at the other end, and you're away, it's never failed me yet.

Out of square pieces are a doddle as well as you can trim what you need off, and I'mm talking les than a mm which I've done a few times on some drawer bottoms for example.

I'd almost be happy to loose my table saw for it :shock:

It is expensive, you can't get away from that, but "FOR ME" ( before a debate starts up ) I can't fault it.

A quick note about extraction, I use it with a Nilfisk Alto Aero 25 which cost me £80 at Screwfix, they compliment each other, and I can't see why I would need a Festool one.

You won't get anty discount on them either, but don't be frightened to negotiate for other items to seal a deal, like the little green splinter guards, perhaps some clamps..............don't pay screen price, get something for free :lol: I got 2 free Systainer screw organisers :wink:

Cheers

Jed

 

[RogerS]

While I, too, am more than delighted with my TS55 and guide rails, I'd like to remind folks that the Festool right angle attachment for the guide rail is a piece of poo. Unless they've actually redesigned it properly.

 

[Oryxdesign]

You can make your own right angle guide. Just a piece of mdf screwed and glued to the bottom of an 800mm guide rail and away you go.

 

[Martingchapman]

I have a TS55 and agree with everything jedmc571 says, yes I get it.

Apart from the accuracy, safety etc of the Festool also bear in mind that you can have a selection of rails and join them together for longer lengths (you can probably do the same with the other makes as well).
I have the 800mm and 1400mm rails and these cover all my needs.

I only have a small workshop so these two sizes are ideal singly for cross cutting or joined together for lengthways ripping.

I could of course have a selection of home made rails but I would not be confident in making them so they could be joined together and a 2200mm home made rail (to equal my two Festool rails joined together) would be a menace in my small shop.

I disagree with the comments about the right angle attachment, it has worked well for me, I recently used it with the 800mm rail when cross cutting decking boards (in the workshop, not the garden) and it was solid and held its setting. Maybe I am lucky or a little less demanding than others.

One thing I would warn folks about is the "slippery slope". Once you own one Festool, because they are so well made and part of a system, you will start to look at the other Festools and it is all downhill from there.

Martin.

 

[RogerS]

......
I disagree with the comments about the right angle attachment, it has worked well for me, I recently used it with the 800mm rail when cross cutting decking boards (in the workshop, not the garden) and it was solid and held its setting. Maybe I am lucky or a little less demanding than others.
......
Martin.

i can see how it could be accurate enough over a short distance but for cutting anything long (say even a 600mm door for a kicteh cupboard) I never found it accurate enough.

eDIT: I give up with this new Apple keyboard. Fed up with having to kep going back and correcting all the missed charcters

 

[jedmc571]

eDIT: I give up with this new Apple keyboard. Fed up with having to kep going back and correcting all the missed charcters

You have my every sympathy Roger, I have a Phillips wireles keyboard, and it does exactly the same :twisted: I tollerate it because I can't find another keyboard with a built in mouse

Anyway Festool......................

Cheers

Jed