£3/400 plunge saw & rail vs £100 circular saw

[petermillard]

It's interesting that in the states the DeWalt is about the same price as the Festool, and it's done well in comparison.

From what I've seen it's a nice saw with some good features; if I was in the market for one now I'd give it serious consideration.

...they appear to be very good saws. I just need to choose which, so has anyone tried both?

I 'played' with both at a trade show a year or so ago, not long after they came out. I liked the DeWalt (though found the plunge action a bit odd after the Festool) but wasn't fussed about the Makita - it seemed a bit lightweight and cheap-feeling - and on that basis alone I'd probably go for the DeWalt, though that's a fairly arbitrary personal decision based on nothing much other than 'feel' so I'd recommend you get your hands on one and see for yourself.

Sorry I can't help more. Cheers, Pete.

 

[DeepBlue]

I have the dewalt, but not the Festool, so I can only comment on the former.

I was eyeing up the Festool for ages, but then D&M had the Dewalt on offer for 100 quid less, so it was a no-brainer.

Firstly, the quality of cut is excellent. It comes with a really nice blade and it gave really crisp cuts with no tearout in veneered boards, but almost immediately I put it to work cutting chipboard to clad my workshop. For this job in particular, I found it indispensable - mark the line, lay the guide down (no clamps) and cut.

The rails are double sided, unlike the festool, which was a great feature for me after I immediately ruined one edge by not keeping the saw moving - if you keep it still it melts the rubber .

The plunge action takes some getting used to - kindof forward then down motion, which is tricky by not impossible to do with one hand, which is what you'll be doing most of the time because the other hand will be steadying the other end of the guide rail. In this respect, I think I'd prefer the action of the Festool.

The dust extraction is great - barely anything escapes when connected to a vacuum. The scale is better than the Festool, because it take the thickness of the guide rail into account, and everything locks very positively.

I've used the saw for about a year now and it's coped with everything I've thrown at it - veneered mdf, chipboard, solid glue-ups, even trimming the edge of decking. To be honest, I use it more like a chippy than a cabinet maker and it has taken some abuse. Maybe if I were using it just for the fine stuff I would have paid the extra 100 quid and gone for the Festool.

Cheers
-Tom

 

[Triggaaar]

I 'played' with both at a trade show a year or so ago, not long after they came out. I liked the DeWalt (though found the plunge action a bit odd after the Festool) but wasn't fussed about the Makita - it seemed a bit lightweight and cheap-feeling - and on that basis alone I'd probably go for the DeWalt, though that's a fairly arbitrary personal decision based on nothing much other than 'feel' so I'd recommend you get your hands on one and see for yourself.

Sorry I can't help more. Cheers, Pete.

Thanks Pete, all advice is helpful. I will try and get my hands on them, but I'm not sure where. I'm also an internet devotee - I'm getting all the advice and cheap deals from the internet, and I would feel cheeky trying things in a good shop if I wasn't buying there, and I'm not sure they could offer as good a price - but I'll try.

I was eyeing up the Festool for ages, but then D&M had the Dewalt on offer for 100 quid less, so it was a no-brainer...

Maybe if I were using it just for the fine stuff I would have paid the extra 100 quid and gone for the Festool.

Thanks Tom. Unless there's some deals I'm missing, the DeWalt is a fair bit more than £100 less than the Festool now. £360 with 2 rails, connector and clamps. The Festool is £430, and you need a second rail, connector and possibly clamps (although I appreciate they're not needed for most work, it seems silly not to have them), which makes the Festool more like £200 more.

The Makita seems to have good reviews on Axminster, but that's the only place I can find reviews for it. The Makita site doesn't even say anything about their tools, so I don't know if it can trim doors in place like the DeWalt for example.

EDIT - found this article comparing the 3:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/artic ... -cut_saws/

Even when reviews have looked at the 3 with similar price tags, they have not found much difference between them.

When saying that the Festool tools are part of a system, what exactly does that mean? The power cables (nice), dust extraction (which I assume would work with any of these saws), what else?

Also, can the makita or DeWalt rails be used with routers, as that would be handy and possibly make a decision for me.

 

[Doblo]

I bought the Festool over the Makita because the Makita doesn't have a riving knife.First Festool,trouble is I've aquired a strange disease....

 

[chippy1970]

When saying that the Festool tools are part of a system, what exactly does that mean? The power cables (nice), dust extraction (which I assume would work with any of these saws), what else?

Everything really its hard to describe, simple little things like if you have a Kapex saw the base is exacly the same height off the bench as a sys1 systainer box so that you could use a systainer as a work support when cutting long stuff. I know its a simple thing but what other manufacturer would thing of doing that.

 

[DeepBlue]

Also, can the makita or DeWalt rails be used with routers, as that would be handy and possibly make a decision for me.

They guy at D&M who demoed the Dewalt to me did mention using it with a router. There's a special gizmo you can get, which IIRC is pretty expensive for what it does. Basically it just rides along the guide rail and has holes for the fence rods on your router. Apparently it's best to use clamps if you're using the guide rail with a router because the force isn't along the axis of the rail, but this makes it quite pricey, and IMHO it's not worth it.

I just use an 8 quid axminster guide rail clamp instead as it's more secure and you can put the work flat on the bench rather than having to have it overhang to get the clamps in.

 

[Oryxdesign]

It is the details like that that make the difference, they are just well thought out.

 

[Triggaaar]

I bought the Festool over the Makita because the Makita doesn't have a riving knife.First Festool,trouble is I've aquired a strange disease....

I can suffer from wanting things to be the best, so I could do without the festool disease.

Everything really its hard to describe, simple little things like if you have a Kapex saw the base is exacly the same height off the bench as a sys1 systainer box so that you could use a systainer as a work support when cutting long stuff. I know its a simple thing but what other manufacturer would thing of doing that.

Understood. I know if some lost everything in a fire, they'd want to start again with everything festool, and since I'm starting a lot of things from scratch it's at least worth checking these things out, but I don't think all the tools are worth the extra for my needs.

They guy at D&M who demoed the Dewalt to me did mention using it with a router. There's a special gizmo you can get, which IIRC is pretty expensive for what it does. Basically it just rides along the guide rail and has holes for the fence rods on your router. Apparently it's best to use clamps if you're using the guide rail with a router because the force isn't along the axis of the rail, but this makes it quite pricey, and IMHO it's not worth it.

Yeah I found an example on youtube, and the adapter is £91 ish at axminster, which is a lot. If I get the DeWalt kit it'll include the clamps.

 

[petermillard]

...the adapter is £91 ish at axminster, which is a lot.

Wow, that is a lot! I paid 20-odd quid for the Festool version and thought that was a bit steep for a bit of moulded plastic and a grab-handle! Don't underestimate the value of having a router on a guiderail though - I'm doing a lot of fluted face frames/infills on alcove bookcases at the mo, and being able to position the ends of the cut (and the space between them) accurately and easily is a huge time-saver; I routed four grooves in a piece of MDF 80mm wide and ~1600mm long for a fluted face-frame last week and it took me literally five minutes, start to finish. Trying to do that with just a clamped straight-edge or home-made jig is the stuff of nightmares...

I'm not sure about the DeWalt rails, but the Festool ones have a hole drilled at each end - perfect for just screwing to the bench if you can't get the clamps in! Cheap too - and easy to put into practice if the DeWalt rails don't come pre-drilled...

Triggaaar, I don't remember you saying what type of woodworkery you do; general chippying? Fine cabinet work? House bashing? Might make a difference to which way you jump on the tracksaw question if you have a particular use in mind?? Just a thought

Cheers, Pete

 

[Triggaaar]

Triggaaar, I don't remember you saying what type of woodworkery you do; general chippying? Fine cabinet work? House bashing? Might make a difference to which way you jump on the tracksaw question if you have a particular use in mind?

Ah, multiple choice - it's a or c I think. At the moment I'm building a guest house and workshop in the garden. The main house is Edwardian, so there'll be a fair bit of chippying to do over the years. I doubt I'll ever make something good enough to be called fine cabinet, but I'd like to make some basic things for the kids, and I want to make an outside bench.

Although a circular saw could do most of what I'd want, I think I'd like to go for a plunge saw and rail for a couple of reasons. Most of my work will be at home and the workshop isn't big enough for a table saw, and it'll probably be a bit safer.

 

[petermillard]

That makes sense; as the other guys further up the thread said, it's hard to put into words really, but I don't know anyone who has a plunge saw who willingly goes back to using an ordinary circ. saw - they just seem 'wrong' somehow.

FWIW I don't have a table saw either...

Cheers, Pete