Unknown bench guillotine

[TFrench]

This might be one for AndyT! Couple of weeks ago I bought this benchtop guillotine on ebay. Got the scale of it somewhat wrong and as I was working away asked Mrs French to pick it up for me - "its only small..." Luckily the fella was there to put it in her car for her! I think the previous owner was a plasterer as it had been trowelled over with a thick coat of metallic green hammerite - took some serious work with a grinder to get it off! I've asked on instagram and trawled google image search but I can't find any info on it.

Anyway, here it is all cleaned up:
Bench guillotine 1
Its interesting as it swivels 360 on the base, and you can tilt it about 20 degrees off vertical as well.
Bench guillotine 2
As you can see its cast iron and seriously heavy! No makers plate or casting anywhere - I can't even find holes where one has been rivetted on and removed. All it has is "D&L" or "L&D" on the pin the handle swivels on:
Bench guillotine 5
All I've done is cleaned the blades - no sharpening yet, but it cuts 1mm aluminium very cleanly:
Bench guillotine 4
Any info (or guesses!) at maker or original purpose would be welcome!

 

[AndyT]

Sorry, no idea, but it does look really useful.

 

[TFrench]

Haha, thanks Andy. What's throwing me is the deep "throat" (ooer) - every other bench guillotine I've seen is just a set of blades operated by a lever and no throat to constrict the size of work.

 

[Dovetaildave]

Looks like a very sturdy piece of kit, looks to good to be a oneoff user made item to me.
I'm no metalworker and I've got no answers, but a few questions .

Under the metallic green paint was there any older paint colour (Black) evident, or signs of oil gilding or decoration?
I read the mark as DL, bit Arts and Crafts style (revival)maybe?

I imagine a right handed user would block access for any wide stock either before or after its nibbled, leading me to assume its for cutting something narrow and as deep as the throat would allow :wink: , like a steel rule for instance, is it a perfect 12 or 24' by any chance?
After the ruler were cut, would the pieces stack up till either the length had been entirely fed in or its reached capacity?
Does the top of the throat line up with the top surface of lower blade allowing for a 90 deg cut or would operator need to hold it steady at the right angle for 90?
Did it come with any additional parts that might fit on the shiny square platform in front, I wonder what its for, does it lift off, does it reveal a fixing point ?

I've guessed that it's imperial, could it be continental in origin?

Regards,
Dave

 

[TFrench]

Thanks Dave. There were a few shades of blue paint, I think the bottom layer was a grey though. I'll measure the actual throat depth tomorrow. It's all whitworth thread form so I assume its english. The shiny square is just the nut that controls the clearance on the jaw - you can move it in and out a little to adjust it. I wondered if it's for leatherwork - cutting shoe patterns maybe?

 

[Mr_Pea]

No idea but since we are talking cobblers/ leather working how about book binding ?

 

[TFrench]

Ok, the throat is 15 inches. Did some experimenting this evening and it seems to work best in this orientation - it's really good at cutting straight lines and it can make a very fine cut without folding the edge over. Curves are tricky below about 1.5" radius but above that it's easy to follow a line. I had a go on some thick leather as well and while it does cut it ok, it does pull the fibres on the back side a bit. Pretty sure it's for metalwork now.

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[Chrispy]

Going by the very small table size I think it could be used by a panel beater for trimming panels after they have been shaped and stretched a bit, think an old front car wing for example, used like a heavy duty pair of tin snips.

No scrub that idea doesn't explain the deep throat.

 

[AndyT]

My guess is that it is for some sort of sheet metal work, but it's a craft I've not looked into much. From what I've read, I've not seen anything like it for boots and shoes or bookbinding.

One thought about the long reach - could you make slots in a piece of metal, away from the edge, like you'd have on an air vent? Or could you cut out a rectangle in the middle of a sheet by making four or more short straight cuts?

 

[TFrench]

Today's experiments: cutting an inside hole is possible but messy! Also tried cutting to a proper line and it makes a really nice job. The circle is 120mm diameter. Have to roughly cut most of the waste off first as it curls under and interferes with the under side blade.
I bought it thinking it would be good for Mrs F's leather work but as it isn't really I might move it on. If I didn't have a workplace full of metalworking kit it would be quite handy!

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[TFrench]

Also just tried a couple of smaller circles. The smallest is about 22mm - I'd say it's about as small as you'd want to go, fingers are a little close to the choppy bits! Quite impressed with how controllable it is.

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[Hornbeam]

One thing I note about this compared with a newer style guillotine is teh relatively short blades which is one of the things that is allowing you to cut circles as is the lack of a support behind the blade which is why there is the support to the side creating the throat.
In terms of cutting different gauges you really need to adjust the blade gap. If you look very closely at a sheared edge it is part cut and part break. Aim for around 30:70 which means tighter clearances for lighter gauges. In practice most material is 0.5 to 1mm and so you can set a mid range and it works OK
Ian

 

[Trevanion]

Am I crazy or does it seem like the cutter is the wrong way to what it should be?

I feel you should feed your workpiece from right to left with your right arm doing the chopping, At least that's the way I would've assumed you would want to use it if you were using it to trim panels and such.

We might never know :-k :duno:

 

[TFrench]

Thanks Hornbeam, makes sense. I think you're right, its for cutting shapes rather than straight lines (although it can). Trevanion, it actually feels "right" when you use it - right hand controlling the cutting action and feeding with the left.

 

[Hornbeam]

I agree with Trevannion that it all looks a bit back to front. Using it like any other guillotine I have used, you would stand with the handle pulling towards you (throat on the right and push the material into the shear. With this you would be pulling the material into the shear nip.
Ian

 

[TFrench]

I've never used the modern style bench guillotine - all ours at work are 4ft+ floor standing ones. I'm assuming it was made before things settled down on a "standard" pattern.

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[toolsntat]

Would this be for cutting a section off the end of a large tube, let's say for example, an oil barrel and even greater diameters.
The tool would need to be fixed to a stout plank (as this, but longer) overhanging the bench but no further than the throat depth.
The greater the tube the further away from the operator, hence the need to be tilted over.
Some shear distortion at the start of the cut may be limited by initially just indenting the first cuts and then after a few pulls breaking through?
Cheers Andy