Xy's Pencil Gauge

[xy mosian]

You are right Rob.
So here is a group shot.
Pencil gauge in the background.
Marking gauge, with Pear stock, in the middle.
Mortice gauge, awaiting points when I can get into the workshop, in the foreground.



BB, I think my wrist might have given up before there was any damage to the Gilbows! That must have been a fairly tricky/fiddly grinding job, well done, very well worth the effort.

xy

 

[BigShot]

Well just like woodbloke I was inspired by Tony (Escudo) to make a pencil gauge. Just to prove to myself, if no-one else, here it is.

Stock in Walnut, beam in Rock Maple, threads in Boxwood.
Sorry forgot. The groove beneath the beam is to give the pencil lead a 'hiding place' when the gauge is in the drawer or un-used on the bench.

Must learn to take better pictures.
xy

Bloody good idea, that slot.
I'll keep it in mind for when I end up making things like this.

 

[David C]

xy,

When examining fine work, I like to look at the fit of the shoulder lines on the inner surfaces of a dovetailed corner.

A 0.1mm or 4 thou" gap is quite apparent to the eye. This is about the thickness of a good quality piece of writing paper.

No matter what the application, it has always been accepted practice to keep the bevel of the knife, to the waste side of the line wherever possible. If we think of marking out grooves for inlay lines, two cutting gauges with the bevels of their knives set in opposite directions will give a crisper result.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Mr Ed]

Ed, I take your point about edges and cutting gauges. For my use, a marking gauge, I tend to use it both towards and away from me. I think that a scalpel blade would 'dig' in when used backwards, how do you get around this? I notice that your blades are not mounted with one bevel parallel to the face of the stock, do you have any accuracy problems?

xy

I only pull towards me, so the blade digging in is not an issue.

I haven't noticed any accuracy issues but maybe I'm not working to the accuracy levels of some of the commentors on this thread. A Swann-Morton 10a scalpel blade is 0.4mm thick, so if you set the dimension you wanted to the side of the blade,but then scribed with the point you could be 0.2mm out. In itself that wouldn't generally be an issue to me, but I aim to set the dimension to the point of the blade.

I know we all strive for accuracy /perfection but this is furniture not space rockets.

I acknowledge that in an ideal world the blade would be single bevel, but the scalpel blade seems an easy choice thats not that big a compromise. This is just one type of gauge I use, I also have a Tite-Mark and other wheel type gauges with single bevel cutters that I use on some occasions.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Mr Ed]

In my view the idea of a ready made disposable edge for this type of tool is more attractive than pratting about grinding nails to try and make a cutting edge that will never be as good as one made in a factory.

Each to their own I guess.

Indeed. I've never seen a factory edge as good as the ones I can get, quite easily.

BugBear

I'd challenge wether you can make a knife edge to the same standards as a Swann Morton scalpel blade. I accept that you can question the fitness for purpose of one for this application, which may be what you mean.

Ed

 

[Mr Ed]

Just noticed this quote on Joel Moskowicz's blog;

How to use marking and mortise gauges in the work shop: Of all the layout tools traditional pin gauges are the most misunderstood. You don't need to play with the pin, and I'll show how to us a gauge so that you get a clear clean line in any wood with any grain.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merc ... BlogID=133

If I read it right, he's proposing leaving the pin as a pin, rather than re-shaping it. Joel - if you're reading chip in here...

Ed

 

[xy mosian]

xy,

When examining fine work, I like to look at the fit of the shoulder lines on the inner surfaces of a dovetailed corner.

A 0.1mm or 4 thou" gap is quite apparent to the eye. This is about the thickness of a good quality piece of writing paper.

No matter what the application, it has always been accepted practice to keep the bevel of the knife, to the waste side of the line wherever possible. If we think of marking out grooves for inlay lines, two cutting gauges with the bevels of their knives set in opposite directions will give a crisper result.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

David, I don't disagree that under the circumstances you describe such a gap or shadowline would be visible. We could talk long about the reason for its existance, whether it be inaccuracies in marking up, sloppy workmanship, work being done to an acceptable standard at the time or a result of timber shrinkage over time. No-one, who was not there, can know the right answer. If that test is used to judge the 'fineness'' of a piece of work then so be it.

I agree entirely about the use of the knife, indeed I stated that I had been taught to use a knife mark across the grain, this eliminates tearing and also provides guidance for the chisel if such is required.
If marking out grooves for inlay lines, I would regard this in the same category as trimming veneers and use a cutting gauge to achieve a deeper mark, a cut in fact.

For the vast majority of my work a scratching marking gauge gives me acceptable results, perhaps my standards are not the highest.

Thanks for your interest,
xy



Ed, Thanks for clearing up the use of your gauge in terms of the direction of stroke. I feel I would be in personal danger using a gauge like that, but I have a leaning to try one. I have a spare stock.

I wholeheartedly agree:- "I know we all strive for accuracy /perfection but this is furniture not space rockets. "

I read your reference to Joel Moskowicz's blog with interest. I shall be trying to keep track of that.

Thanks again,

xy

 

[Mr Ed]

[. I feel I would be in personal danger using a gauge like that, but I have a leaning to try one.

Not quite sure what the personal danger is here - I only have 3 or 4mm of the blade sticking out and its a very controlled movement, with a roll of the wrist at the start and finish so you can see the cutting edge.

Ed

 

[xy mosian]

Personal danger?

At the moment scribing a rail say, I hold the near end of the rail at about chest height with the further end on the bench. Starting at the lower end I mark upwards to about three quarters of the length, then start again, this time at the top and work downwards. I think with a scalpel blade I would perhaps be better off starting at the top. Although, as with all things, developing a technique having due respect for the equipment is the key. I hadn't got as far as considering the projection of the blade, at three millimetres or so then I would feel less apprehensive.

xy

 

[bugbear]

Indeed. I've never seen a factory edge as good as the ones I can get, quite easily.

BugBear

I'd challenge wether you can make a knife edge to the same standards as a Swann Morton scalpel blade.
Ed

Last time I looked at one of those (under magnification), it was nothing special. It was a long time ago though - I'll check when I get home.

In a home workshop, using a jig and finishing at 2500 grit SiC one can rather easily go all the way to the intersection of two mirror finish surfaces.

BugBear

 

[ivan]

Some years ago someone sent in a tip to Fine WW magazine, suggesting you grind a very shallow single bevel (~20 deg) on the plain end of a thin (say 2mm) HSS drill, which you then fit into one of those clutch style propelling pencils, to use as a marking "knife".

Well, I use a solid carbide 2mm "lead" in one as a (metalwork) scriber, which works very well, so I gave it a try. The resulting scored line is pretty good, but I didn't like holding my marking pencil/knife askew to allow for the bevel angle. I was surprised how easily the rather narrow bevelled flat ran down a square etc. If you want to hold the "pencil" vertically, grind half the drill away (0 deg "bevel" as per mkg. guage pic above).

HSS can be "cut" by grinding a shallow nick along the intended line and snapping - best done in a vice with a hammer tap under a piece of cloth just in case of the unexpected.

 

[woodbloke]

HSS can be "cut" by grinding a shallow nick along the intended line and snapping - best done in a vice with a hammer tap under a piece of cloth just in case of the unexpected.

...but always advisable to wear the safety gogs as well - Rob

 

[xy mosian]

Ivan,

"HSS can be "cut" by grinding a shallow nick along the intended line and snapping - best done in a vice with a hammer tap under a piece of cloth just in case of the unexpected."

Thanks for that tip, it was trimming the drill to length which had me stumped when thinking of using a bit.

With gogs of course Rob.

xy

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Here is a picture of the cutter of one of my marking gagues its 2mm silver steel filed to shape, hardened and honed. its not the best picture I was trying to take it with the flash instead if waiting for some daylight but it gives you some idea of the shape.

Pete

 

[David C]

Very nice Pete.

I expect it works very well?

David

 

[Racers]

Hi, David

I am well pleased with them, only thing now is to stop making them I think 8 is enough, made in pares in different woods.


Pete

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for posting the image of one of your 'points', inspirational. At present mine are gramophone needles and at 1.5mm diameter they feel almost two thin. I may just have to try points such as yours, made from HSS twist drills.

Your image looks almost exactly like the point I think Rob was describing.

xy