Workshop Light Efficiency

[plymouth pirate]

Say your tubes are 35 Watts each then your drain would be 5 x 35 = 175 Watts. That's a lot less than your meter is showing. Even if you've got twin units that's still only 350 Watts, a bit lower than your meter shows.

Rgds, John

 

[head clansman]

hi tom


just how are you actualy doing the test on the workshop lights .? hc

 

[9fingers]

this is the meter I'm using

http://www.efergy.com/store/product_inf ... ucts_id=30

It stays at that reading for at least 10mins

Brendan, makes sense, will try that.

I think these meters just use a clip on sensor measuring current at the meter and at no time connect directly to the mains to get a voltage or phase reference.

They will give a rough idea of consumption patterns but that is about all.

Sorry to 'P' on your scheme Tom but sadly there are a lot of these types of things on the market and really they are just not up to the type of use you are putting it to.

Bob

 

[wizer]

Martin, see above. It's a device which clips over the mains cable coming into the house and sends a reading wirelessly to a meter

 

[9fingers]

I'm desperately trying to find ways of reducing it. Lights seem to be the issue. It's starting sink in with wifey and she's turning lights off. But we have lots of halogen light fittings, so the energy efficient bulbs don't fit.

There is one big fallacy over these high efficiency lamps. The waste heat from conventional bulbs help heat your home. if people switch over to the high efficiency ones they they will need to get the heat from another source.

Bob

I don't think its as bad as that, my heating bill didn't go up, mind you I had a new boiler so couldn't compare properly.

It is basic science Martin. All the energy put into a filament light bulb comes out as a mix of light and heat and the heat goes to warm up the room. In this respect they are 100% efficient.

Where high efficiency lamps are best used is outdoors where the heat output is genuinely wasted.

Bob

 

[wizer]

Ok so bearing in mind that the units are very old and were given to me 2nd hand, should I just upgrade them as a matter of course ? I couldn't afford to do it all at once. But I guess I could buy one a month for a while.

 

[motownmartin]

Ok so bearing in mind that the units are very old and were given to me 2nd hand, should I just upgrade them as a matter of course ? I couldn't afford to do it all at once. But I guess I could buy one a month for a while.

I reckon so Tom, I have just replaced mine.

 

[wizer]

Righty. So these things were suggested in another thread:

http://www.qvsdirect.com/2-x-5ft-58W-T8 ... 20928.html

Firstly are they 'good'? Secondly, I have 5 singles at the moment. Is there any benefit to using double units and less of them. Or should I do as I do now and use singles above the areas I need light. i.e Workbench, Lathe, Table Saw, Bandaw and one down the middle?

 

[motownmartin]

I'm desperately trying to find ways of reducing it. Lights seem to be the issue. It's starting sink in with wifey and she's turning lights off. But we have lots of halogen light fittings, so the energy efficient bulbs don't fit.

There is one big fallacy over these high efficiency lamps. The waste heat from conventional bulbs help heat your home. if people switch over to the high efficiency ones they they will need to get the heat from another source.

Bob

I don't think its as bad as that, my heating bill didn't go up, mind you I had a new boiler so couldn't compare properly.

It is basic science Martin. All the energy put into a filament light bulb comes out as a mix of light and heat and the heat goes to warm up the room. In this respect they are 100% efficient.

Where high efficiency lamps are best used is outdoors where the heat output is genuinely wasted.

Bob

I know that sometimes I come across as a bit dense Bob but I understand science, what I am saying is that I don't think its that straight forward but you could be right, I rarely am :wink:

 

[plymouth pirate]

Ok so bearing in mind that the units are very old and were given to me 2nd hand, should I just upgrade them as a matter of course ? I couldn't afford to do it all at once. But I guess I could buy one a month for a while.

Like these windmills Mr Cameron has bought for his house , the price of purchase will not be saved for many, many years. Then you also have to take into account the power used to produce each item and you're looking a long way into the future before they start to become energy efficient.

John

 

[9fingers]

I'm desperately trying to find ways of reducing it. Lights seem to be the issue. It's starting sink in with wifey and she's turning lights off. But we have lots of halogen light fittings, so the energy efficient bulbs don't fit.

There is one big fallacy over these high efficiency lamps. The waste heat from conventional bulbs help heat your home. if people switch over to the high efficiency ones they they will need to get the heat from another source.

Bob

I don't think its as bad as that, my heating bill didn't go up, mind you I had a new boiler so couldn't compare properly.

It is basic science Martin. All the energy put into a filament light bulb comes out as a mix of light and heat and the heat goes to warm up the room. In this respect they are 100% efficient.

Where high efficiency lamps are best used is outdoors where the heat output is genuinely wasted.

Bob

I know that sometimes I come across as a bit dense Bob but I understand science, what I am saying is that I don't think its that straight forward but you could be right, I rarely am :wink:

Apologies Martin I did not intend to cause any offence. This subject is just one of my hobby horses.

Bob

 

[wizer]

Righty. So these things were suggested in another thread:

http://www.qvsdirect.com/2-x-5ft-58W-T8 ... 20928.html

Firstly are they 'good'? Secondly, I have 5 singles at the moment. Is there any benefit to using double units and less of them. Or should I do as I do now and use singles above the areas I need light. i.e Workbench, Lathe, Table Saw, Bandaw and one down the middle?

 

[Boz62]

I installed the cheapo Screwfix Sylvania ones earlier in the year and they were well worth it. With Daylight tubes they give a lot more usable light per watt than the old iron transformer ones, start faster and are quieter. I bought Osram daylight tubes locally from Cargo as I didn't want to buy a pack of 25 via the internet. For me 2 fittings (one 58W tube each) gives the right amount of light in a 2.8m x 2.4m white painted workshop. I use one each side of the workshop over benches/tools and nothing in the middle.

Don't forget those old fluorescent fittings have large lumps of iron in them (the transformer/choke). That will significantly effect the "power" reading read by just measuring current at a remote point due to the phase lag they induce.

Boz

 

[Wood Monkey]

Hey Tom

Is the inside of your workshop painted white? Mine is painted and has a pine clad ceiling and it transformed the lighting.

Before the walls were clad and painted i was worried that my 4x5ft twin tube fittings would not be sufficient (14x18 workshop) but after painting the walls it was transformed.

Jon

 

[head clansman]

hi tom

that meter when attached next to electric main meter also register ever thing else running in the background in your house as well , by background i mean thing like fridges freezers boliers alarm clocks stand bye light on most electric item ie tv set satalite boxes etc etc to get an accurate reading on all item in the house everything need to be switched off so the meter wheel has stopped then test each item one at a time to get it power consumption that way you get to true comsumption on all items and on some you may well get a shock, did you turn every thing off first. hc

 

[RogerS]

I'm desperately trying to find ways of reducing it. Lights seem to be the issue. It's starting sink in with wifey and she's turning lights off. But we have lots of halogen light fittings, so the energy efficient bulbs don't fit.

There is one big fallacy over these high efficiency lamps. The waste heat from conventional bulbs help heat your home. if people switch over to the high efficiency ones they they will need to get the heat from another source.

Bob

Well said, Bob. A lone voice of commonsense in the cacophony of 'You must...you should...you will'.

 

[RogerS]

Wizer,

You might already be doing this but running the hot tap beside the washing machine as it is loaded will run off the cold water 'dead leg' (as my plumber described it) and your machine will immediately take in hot water thus stopping it acting like an immersion heater before it starts washing. Our washing machine is outside in a building close to the house and this tip has reduced my electricity bill substantially.

Not strictly true as it still has to run in however much cold water there is sitting in your 'dead leg' and then heat that up. Which is why I recently installed a secondary return using very well lagged pipes. No more 'dead leg's. My thanks to Jenx for his help on this.

 

[RogerS]

hi tom

that meter when attached next to electric main meter also register ever thing else running in the background in your house as well , by background i mean thing like fridges freezers boliers alarm clocks stand bye light on most electric item ie tv set satalite boxes etc etc to get an accurate reading on all item in the house everything need to be switched off so the meter wheel has stopped then test each item one at a time to get it power consumption that way you get to true comsumption on all items and on some you may well get a shock, did you turn every thing off first. hc

Tom effectively did that by noticing the difference between lights on and lights off....OK...it's possible that just at the same moment, is fridge or something else could have kicked in but that's easy enough to check. Thing is that 9fingers is spot-on and that these meters are not that accurate.

 

[jedmc571]

Tom,

I originally had a single flourescent in a 17 x 8 it was useless even before I wanted it as a shop.

I got 4 5' singles secondand hand, they have standard tubes, not sure of the rating, but they made a huge difference, I would like to try the "Daylight" ones though.
I think most would agree, that by painting your surfaces white, or at least brighter, it really throws off more.
At one stage I only had 2 lamps working and that was good enough, once I got all 4 on Fantastic, so I guess you could try the cheaper, but more labour intensive art of paint throwing :lol:

Those doubles look very good value, I couldn't get anywhere near that.

Going back to Halogens, you could swap them for LED, they are expensive, but apparently draw less and last longer ? not sure but Screwfix do them, or try that site for the lamps.

Edit....... http://www.qvsdirect.com/GU10-240v-1.8W ... 20430.html

Cheers

Jed

 

[RobertMP]

Those sealed enclosure fittings looked like a good deal to me. They had high frequency gear in them. The enclosure will allow the lamps to reach a higher running temperature at which they are more efficient.

A meter based on a clip on ammeter has to be basing its power calculation on resistive loads as it does not have a voltage measurement to compare the phase. Wirewound domestic fluorescents have a lagging power factor which I think is around 0.65 or 0.7 so it will draw current at a higher level than the power it consumes (and you pay for power not current unless you have industrial 3 phase). Long way of saying the meter may not be correct

Age of the lamp is a bigger factor than if it is daylight or white for light output. I find daylight a horrible cold colour and the output of a white tube is not much lower. Old lamps may only be giving half the light or less than they did when they were new and still cost the same to run.