Workshop Design - well it's a build really.

[MickCheese]

This is my favorite post at the moment. I keep popping back to catch any updates.

Well done on both the job and the forum updates.

Mick

 

[Dibs-h]

Update - Got the 2nd Kingpost shaped, it isn't the easiest thing to run thru a bandsaw! Not to mention lugging the bandsaw down to the shed!

The other end of the principal rafter,

And then after about 20 assembling attempts - a little fettling here and a little there,

If I'm lucky might get the other principal rafter T&M done this eveing - if it doesn't chuck it down.

One annoying thing tho - the nbr of times I've caught my fingertips turning the timber over or moving them about - and what with the neighbours and the school playground - have to just hop about and no cursing!

Looking to order the rest of the larger timbers, today - 4"x4" for the struts and 6"x4" for the purlins for tomorrow. I'll leave the rest till this lot is up at least - otherwise it's just asking to fall over something. If I'm lucky may just start on the M&T's for the struts on Sun.

 

[Dibs-h]

Update - Friday evening got the tennon (tie beam joint) started and then it started to get dark

(the piccy is from this morning)

And then got the mortice done and after what seemed like a million fitting attempts and fettling -

Then offered up to the Kingpost for marking the other tennon\mortise,

both mortice and tennon done,

And finally,

Sorry for the crappy picture - was starting to get dark and I had to dismantle it, restack it and cover it with sheeting, to stop it getting soaked.

Bought the 4"x4" sections today - for the struts. Hopefully all being well - should have them fitted tomorrow, well at least 2 of them. So will have 1 truss finished. If I manage to get all 4 struts fitted - will then look to cog the principal rafters in readiness for the purlins which I couldn't be arsed to collect today so will get them on Monday\Tuesday.

The truss in the last picture - I did have a go at lifting one end to gauge the weight and fook me - it ain't going up even with 4-6 blokes built like the proverbial. May well assemble them in situ - or have a think about it.

Once up will screw some temp timbers across the 2. Be a bit of a bugger getting them up and for them to then fall down or go sideways due to the weather etc.

 

[Dibs-h]

Update: Started on the struts. As the timber was 4"x4" thought sod it, I've had enough of doing it by hand and went and got the bandsaw and did the tennons on that.

Chopped out the mortises in both the kingpost and underside of the principal rafter and test fitted the first strut,

Did the other side and fitted the lot,

Not pegged yet - PITA dismantling it again and stacking it up. Wanting to finish the other one first and then assemble them the last time (probably in-situ) before carrying on with the rest of the roof.

Probably need top slot the top of the kingpost for the 8"x2" ridge board and leave the final trimming to be done once the common rafters have been fitted. Also will need to fit the wallplate and cog it and the base of the tie beam prior to assemblimg them in-situ or getting them up pre-assembled. Will be having a ponder over the drawing again to see what needs to go where prior to getting these things up.

 

[Triggaaar]

Wow this is great, I only wish I joined the forum and found this thread a few months ago. I'm in the process of doing a build much like yours: Building at the bottom of the garden, right up against neighbours walls, so cantilevered slab like yours. I wish I'd been able to bounce ideas of you, we've done such a similar job.

I'm not too pleased that you've done it on your own though, I'm totally jealous. Where do you get the time to take photos and update this thread? I've got next to no photos of my build, I just want to rest when the days work is over (and I have others doing most of the work).

You mentioned at the start about making it good enough that it could convert to a dwelling if needed - did you find out how much extra it would be, and did you go with it?

I'll be keeping a close watch on your progress, and see what I could have done as you go (as my build is slightly ahead of yours).

 

[Dibs-h]

Wow this is great, I only wish I joined the forum and found this thread a few months ago. I'm in the process of doing a build much like yours: Building at the bottom of the garden, right up against neighbours walls, so cantilevered slab like yours. I wish I'd been able to bounce ideas of you, we've done such a similar job.

I'm not too pleased that you've done it on your own though, I'm totally jealous. Where do you get the time to take photos and update this thread? I've got next to no photos of my build, I just want to rest when the days work is over (and I have others doing most of the work).

Pleased - I've got the "other" workshop to do and the garage above it - you're more than welcome to come round - be happy to supply the cuppas and you can use the inside loo. :wink:

Pictures have never really been an issue - camera phones are impressive these days. Besides be daft not to there is a wealth of experience on this forum and besides the chaps expect them. I suspect if it was just a thread with no pictures, lots of questions and "here's" the final result - I'd be so hesitant at having a "opening bash" at my workshop - the chances of being taught a lesson would be high!:shock:

You mentioned at the start about making it good enough that it could convert to a dwelling if needed - did you find out how much extra it would be, and did you go with it?

I'll be keeping a close watch on your progress, and see what I could have done as you go (as my build is slightly ahead of yours).

I spoke to the B\C chap and if and that's a fat if - more like over my dead body - it ever turns into a dwelling (we have 2 kids and a 6 bed house - so never really) it would just require a planning permission change and with the amount of insulation that is going into the walls, floors and roof - we should get away without making structural changes later on.

To be honest - the only reason I entertained building in a potential change of use was on the off-chance that we sold up (having found a place with lots of space for the family, but with even more for me) and having built it with a change of use in mind, would put a bigger premium on the sale price, than the additional costs incurred.

But as the wife has been living in a bit of a building site (somewhat of an understatement) for some years - selling up and moving to do it again, I'm certain would be over my dead body.

 

[Dibs-h]

Update - there isn't one per se, more a realisation that I don't need a wallplate as is. The trusses sit on the piers directly and what is referred to as a pole plate - sometimes cogged\notched into the top of the tie beam - goes ontop. This effectively serves as the wallpate for the foot of the rafters.

Still debating whether to glue the truss joints or not - I don't see any reason why not - so am erring down that road. Anyone know why or why not - would love some input.

Weather looks ok today - so fingers crossed will get the other 2 struts cut & morticed into the truss and then get the s\s pins cut and fitted later in teh week before getting them into place (somehow).

 

[Triggaaar]

you're more than welcome to come round - be happy to supply the cuppas and you can use the inside loo. :wink:

It's a bit of a treck as I'm on the south coast.

Pictures have never really been an issue - camera phones are impressive these days.

Yeah I'm better at taking photos than building, but I just don't have the energy. As soon as I stop for the day, I'm on the internet looking for materials/tools, or heping with the young ones.

Besides be daft not to there is a wealth of experience on this forum

Yes indeed, I didn't find it until now. It was only when I hit an oak cladding problem I had to find a wood forum.

I spoke to the B\C chap and if and that's a fat if - more like over my dead body - it ever turns into a dwelling (we have 2 kids and a 6 bed house - so never really) it would just require a planning permission change and with the amount of insulation that is going into the walls, floors and roof - we should get away without making structural changes later on.

It probably wouldn't be that difficult to get permission to use the building for people to stay in, as long as it was as part of the main building (ancilary to the enjoyment of), and not to be sold off separately. That's what my building is for, and it's in a conservation area in the centre of the city. I appreciate you're not too bothered about using it for living accomodation though.

What insulation are you putting in (walls, floor, roof)? For living accommodation standard it's unusual to have a single skin blockwork - are you rendering the areas that aren't up against the dry wall?

EDIT - I've just been looking at another thread where you were asking about insulation and sound proofing. Despite what your B/C said, don't assume it's enough insulation should you want to convert the space to living accommodation. Sounds like it's close, but maybe not quite enough. Just ask if you want to check (unless you already know, in which case ignore me )

 

[Dibs-h]

It's a bit of a treck as I'm on the south coast.

In which case there's no popping home to see the family - you'd have to finish it & then go. :wink:

Yeah I'm better at taking photos than building, but I just don't have the energy. As soon as I stop for the day, I'm on the internet looking for materials/tools, or heping with the young ones.

Almost all the material suppliers, etc. were sorted before the build began and budgetary figures were calculated (along with a sum for unknowns)and put into a spreadsheet - and then actual vs budgetary tracked. As for childcare - unfortunately I can't do the building work & the children - although our son who's 7, likes spending a lot of time on the "site".

It probably wouldn't be that difficult to get permission to use the building for people to stay in, as long as it was as part of the main building (ancilary to the enjoyment of), and not to be sold off separately. That's what my building is for, and it's in a conservation area in the centre of the city. I appreciate you're not too bothered about using it for living accomodation though.

We are in a conservation area too, but with restrictive covenants on the strip that the garage\workshops are being built.

What insulation are you putting in (walls, floor, roof)? For living accommodation standard it's unusual to have a single skin blockwork - are you rendering the areas that aren't up against the dry wall?

EDIT - I've just been looking at another thread where you were asking about insulation and sound proofing. Despite what your B/C said, don't assume it's enough insulation should you want to convert the space to living accommodation. Sounds like it's close, but maybe not quite enough. Just ask if you want to check (unless you already know, in which case ignore me )

The ceilings will have 100mm Kingspan and so will the floor on average - as will the walls. Although I am erring down the road of batt insulation for the walls as some have said that it suppresses noise better. The glass in the windows will be D\G. So in the end I can't see it being an issue. But if we sell and any new owner puts in a change of use - then he\she would need to comply with whatever Regs are in force at the time. Which may be more prescriptive than the ones now.

Just had a thought - as the external walls are to be rendered - might have a quick look into the types of external insulation - costs, suppliers, fitting, cost effectiveness, etc.

 

[Dibs-h]

Update - barely get 90 mins on an evening before it starts getting dark. Got the tennons cut on the last 2 struts (no piccies unfortunately) and as I'm home earlier today - should have the mortices cut and the struts fitted.

May leave the trusses assembled - this assemble\dis-assembly thing is getting awfully tiring. Will just cover them over with sheeting and get stuff ready for the "lift" into place on the weekend.

Should have plenty of piccies tomorrow or this evening of the trusses. Just need the roof to be "Tyvek'd & battoned" before the end of month.

 

[Mattty]

PM sent

 

[Triggaaar]

We are in a conservation area too, but with restrictive covenants on the strip that the garage\workshops are being built.

Are the neigbours whose name the covenants are in, still the same neighbours (or are there just covenants on the land that have been there ages, and are in the name of someone else)? I assume the former, otherwise they won't stand.

The ceilings will have 100mm Kingspan and so will the floor on average - as will the walls.

Wow that's a lot in the floor (if the insulation covers the whole floor) unless it's just between battens.
You obviously know what you're doing, so forgive these questions - hopefully less annoying than saying 'I could've told you that' if you did make a mistake. Is the insulation in the ceiling under, or between the rafters (if the former, again wow, that's a lot; if the latter, have you got a gap over the top to allow airflow, and a vapour barrier on the inside)?
And on the walls, are you putting DPC between the studs and blocks, and keeping the insulation off the walls?

But if we sell and any new owner puts in a change of use - then he\she would need to comply with whatever Regs are in force at the time. Which may be more prescriptive than the ones now.

Indeed, although building regs and planning are separate, and I wonder if you could have the spec signed off now, such that if you converted it for sales purposes, it would all look finished. Otherwise someone viewing your property would see your cool building, but perhaps not give it full credit for how well built it is, and not take its true value into account (I'm a property developer :evil: )

 

[Dibs-h]

Are the neigbours whose name the covenants are in, still the same neighbours (or are there just covenants on the land that have been there ages, and are in the name of someone else)? I assume the former, otherwise they won't stand.

The covenants are from 1918 - the Church Of England own next door and could enforce them - but to be honest couldn't possibly have a nicer set of neighbours.

Wow that's a lot in the floor (if the insulation covers the whole floor) unless it's just between battens.
You obviously know what you're doing, so forgive these questions - hopefully less annoying than saying 'I could've told you that' if you did make a mistake. Is the insulation in the ceiling under, or between the rafters (if the former, again wow, that's a lot; if the latter, have you got a gap over the top to allow airflow, and a vapour barrier on the inside)?
And on the walls, are you putting DPC between the studs and blocks, and keeping the insulation off the walls?

DPM will be going down, lapped up the walls and taped to the DPC that can be seen in the pictures.

There will be 50mm Kingspan (or dense EPS) down then 3"x2" battons sideways and then 50mm Kingspan between the battons and finally 18mm ply on top.

The inner stud wall will be 4"x2" spaced a little away from the wall - fully filled with insulation, vapour barrier then fireline plasterboard.

The rafters (4"x2") will have 100mm kingspan between the rafters - Tyvek on top, counter battoned, then tiling laths and then tiles. Dry ridge system, with eaves vents. Under the rafter there will be 18mm ply (equivalent to a vapour barrier) but fitted to increase the resistance to thieving scumbags should they try to enter from the roof. Might get a bit of stiffness added to the roof as well. Finished with fireline plasterboard.

Indeed, although building regs and planning are separate, and I wonder if you could have the spec signed off now, such that if you converted it for sales purposes, it would all look finished. Otherwise someone viewing your property would see your cool building, but perhaps not give it full credit for how well built it is, and not take its true value into account (I'm a property developer :evil: )

The B\C chap will hopefully sign it off to a dwelling spec - as planning passed it as a "Hobby Room", not as an outbuilding.

Update : made good progress on the last truss. Will post up piccies and details in the morning.

 

[Dibs-h]

Update as promised.

Got home yesterday mid-aft thereby allowing a good run at getting the trusses moving along.

Tidied up the shoulders on the strut tennons and then started chopping out the mortices in the underside of the prinicipal rafters,

Then marking out the other one,

Here's the 2 struts tennoned into the principal rafters,

Then into the Kingpost,

and finally both struts into the Kingpost and a test fit into the Tiebeam,

And then the moment we've all been waiting for

Can not tell you all just how much I've been looking forward to taking this picture!!

Then a bit of a mockup to see the placement of the 4"x6" purlins and 4" tall rafters, (more like a sanity check to make sure the Kingposts don't end up being short or something)

Will be collecting some s\s 10mm bar late today (or early am) and then pegging the joints tomorrow morning. Will be slotting the Kingposts this evening as well. Tidying up inside the "shed" before anything else.

 

[Boz62]

Well done Dibs, this is really good stuff, I'm well impressed

I'm another one who is watching this absolutely fascinated...

Boz

 

[Oldman]

I dont think Dibs has got a proper job, he spends far too much time out on the project.

Still following this with interest like everyone else I guess...


Hurry up Dibs I want to see the roof on before it snows :wink:

 

[wobblycogs]

Fantastic build, makes me wish I had the space to give it a go myself. Where do you find the time do do the work though? I run my own business from home and I would struggle to find enough time.

Must be getting mighty cold on site too but I suppose all that hard work lifting bits into place to check the fit keeps you pretty warm

 

[Dibs-h]

I dont think Dibs has got a proper job, he spends far too much time out on the project.

Still following this with interest like everyone else I guess...


Hurry up Dibs I want to see the roof on before it snows :wink:

Roof on before it snows? I need the building complete (bar final windows & door - before Mid November!

edit - Picked up the s\s bar at lunchtime so should have the pegs chopped up this evening. Just about to order the timber for the purlins, ridge and pole plate & will be collecting that tomorrow.

 

[Triggaaar]

Liking your trusses.

DPM will be going down, lapped up the walls and taped to the DPC that can be seen in the pictures.

Yep, I saw the ground stuff, was wondering about the walls...

The inner stud wall will be 4"x2" spaced a little away from the wall - fully filled with insulation, vapour barrier then fireline plasterboard.

Ah - didn't realise you had a complete inner stud wall to do. That doesn't go around the whole building though does it?

The rafters (4"x2") will have 100mm kingspan between the rafters - Tyvek on top, counter battoned, then tiling laths and then tiles. Dry ridge system, with eaves vents.

I guess this doesn't matter, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't meet bld regs if it were a habitable space. Should do you fine though. I'm putting my insulation it at the moment, and I'm supposed to leave a gap between the top of my kingspan, and the breathable felt, even though I'm not supposed to put ventilation in. I'm waiting for my architect to get back to me to explain it to me.

 

[Dibs-h]

Ah - didn't realise you had a complete inner stud wall to do. That doesn't go around the whole building though does it?

It will be 3 walls -the outer walls - the shortest wall nearest to the house & existing garage probably won't as the garage wall will butt upto it but still be separate.

I guess this doesn't matter, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't meet bld regs if it were a habitable space. Should do you fine though. I'm putting my insulation it at the moment, and I'm supposed to leave a gap between the top of my kingspan, and the breathable felt, even though I'm not supposed to put ventilation in. I'm waiting for my architect to get back to me to explain it to me.

It may not meet it in terms of insulation value (I haven't done the calcs) but there should be no problem with full fill insulation and then the Tyvek - i.e. no space between the Tyvek and Kingspan. It's already been run past the BCO & he's fine. He's suggested that he will accept a "whole building calc" as opposed to treating each element separately. I'll be having a chat with the SE about this tomorrow.

I've gone over Tyvek and Kingspan's technical literature that many times - I haven't seen any mention of having to leave a gap between Kingpsan and Tyvek.