Workbench Advice

[J_SAMa]

Just made a sketchup model. Please check the original post. I think I've "invented" a few unusual things, like the non full-length apron...
Really not sure how my innovations would turn out

Whilst a shortened apron is an interesting innovation, I'd honestly retain a full length apron, because shortening it would tend to serve little purpose other than allow the use of f-cramps at that location. This won't tend to reduce the amount of work or materials used during the build by much, but will tend to leave minimal amount of material and support to the left of a vise typically set into the apron.

Hi Gary,
I shortened the apron so I could mount a vise under the non-aproned area. With a full-length apron, I would have to cut an opening in it to fit the vise (which is what Paul Sellers did). I think that's just too much trouble. I could try and mount a more traditional vise (one of those that don't come with metal jaws), but it requires a lot of accurate drilling (and I don't have a drill press).

 

[J_SAMa]

I do wonder how much deflection you will get in the over hanging section when you are chopping on wood held in the vise. Probably not enough to break anything but I think it would at least be annoying. Whats the top thickness?

65 mm top and maybe also 18 mm of beech on top of that (it can never be too thick right?).

 

[GazPal]

Just made a sketchup model. Please check the original post. I think I've "invented" a few unusual things, like the non full-length apron...
Really not sure how my innovations would turn out

Whilst a shortened apron is an interesting innovation, I'd honestly retain a full length apron, because shortening it would tend to serve little purpose other than allow the use of f-cramps at that location. This won't tend to reduce the amount of work or materials used during the build by much, but will tend to leave minimal amount of material and support to the left of a vise typically set into the apron.

Hi Gary,
I shortened the apron so I could mount a vise under the non-aproned area. With a full-length apron, I would have to cut an opening in it to fit the vise (which is what Paul Sellers did). I think that's just too much trouble. I could try and mount a more traditional vise (one of those that don't come with metal jaws), but it requires a lot of accurate drilling (and I don't have a drill press).

Hi Sam,

The vise is specifically located within the apron as an added means of support, but kept more toward the bench centre (Especially on shorter benches) for the sake of balance when the vise is loaded and in use. As drawn, the overhang on many shorter apron benches is only 225mm - 250mm and mounting the vise within this area can tend to place your bench at risk of tipping during use, unless the frame is weighted from beneath or secured to the floor.

The apron chop involved is a standard procedure and an element which can be built-in during the construction process. I prefer to make the chop when fitting the vise as it provides a more accurate means of locating and securing it in place.

You don't need a drill press in order to drill the two leg vise holes accurately. Many methods exist for checking accuracy as you drill.

I'd aim to build the top at between 90mm - 100mm thick, with an apron measuring between 38mm - 50mm thick (50mm if you intend to use front mounted holdfast) and legs at 75mm - 100mm square, with 100mm x 50mm stretchers. This would provide a solid bench that's capable of withstanding a lot of work without a liability to shift under load or while you work.

 

[bugbear]

I wouldn't chop in a vice by choice - I'd clamp something in the vice, then clamp my workpiece to it so as to get the working area as close as possible to being over a leg.

What, this kind of thing?

http://web.archive.org/web/200901140249 ... rtice_hold



BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Hi Sam,

The vise is specifically located within the apron as an added means of support

I don't understand.The fixing bolts for a (usual) vise go up though the vise into the benchtop. How is an apron involved?

BugBear

 

[GazPal]

Hi Sam,

The vise is specifically located within the apron as an added means of support

I don't understand.The fixing bolts for a (usual) vise go up though the vise into the benchtop. How is an apron involved?

BugBear

The apron - in part - forms the rear jaw liner and extends the vise effective jaw width. By extension, the apron is part of the vise support, as well as preventing racking in the workbench during use.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Sam,

The vise is specifically located within the apron as an added means of support

I don't understand.The fixing bolts for a (usual) vise go up though the vise into the benchtop. How is an apron involved?

BugBear

The apron - in part - forms the rear jaw liner and extends the vise effective jaw width. By extension, the apron is part of the vise support, as well as preventing racking in the workbench during use.

Um... I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you show me a picture?

 

[GazPal]

Um... I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you show me a picture?

I'll see what I can do in terms of pictures Sam and hope to post something later, but can produce a sketchup diagram showing details and email it to you if you'd possibly find that easier.

 

[bugbear]

The apron - in part - forms the rear jaw liner and extends the vise effective jaw width. By extension, the apron is part of the vise support, as well as preventing racking in the workbench during use.

Ah - so the apron doesn't (in fact) support the vise, but it does take some of the workload OFF the vise, which mean the vise is less likely to move.

(I already understood the racking bit)

Thank you.

BugBear

 

[J_SAMa]

Um... I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you show me a picture?

I'll see what I can do in terms of pictures Sam and hope to post something later, but can produce a sketchup diagram showing details and email it to you if you'd possibly find that easier.

Hi Gary,
Well I just made a model based on the original design.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... d&result=4
If it's possible, could you please fit this vise http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0 onto the workbench model (with the opening and everything)?

Sam

 

[GazPal]

Um... I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you show me a picture?

I'll see what I can do in terms of pictures Sam and hope to post something later, but can produce a sketchup diagram showing details and email it to you if you'd possibly find that easier.

Hi Gary,
Well I just made a model based on the original design.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... d&result=4
If it's possible, could you please fit this vise http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0 onto the workbench model (with the opening and everything)?

Sam

I already had a welled bench diagram with a vise of the same type drawn as fitted, so have emailed it to you. Record's #53 vise is quite a beast in terms of weight and is a large example, but an excellent choice if you manage to source an original.

 

[J_SAMa]

I already had a welled bench diagram with a vise of the same type drawn as fitted, so have emailed it to you. Record's #53 vise is quite a beast in terms of weight and is a large example, but an excellent choice if you manage to source an original.

Hi Gary,
Many thanks !! Now I see that the vises have to be closer to the center than the legs.
My problem with that is though, I'm going have wedges alongside the leg, next to the side closer to the the center (the "inside" of the frame). They might interfere with the vise. should I change the design so that the wedges are on the side of the legs farther from the center (the "outside" of the fram)?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've not been able to find original Record vises, only Irwin Record ones:http://www.tooled-up.com/manproduct/irwin-record-t53ed-professional-quick-release-plain-screw-woodworking-vice-with-front-dog-10.5-265mm/8124/

and also these by an unknown maker on fine-tools:
http://www.fine-tools.com/schraub.htm
well, unknown maker, but since Dieter Schmidt is selling it, it's ought to be good.

Sam

 

[GazPal]

I already had a welled bench diagram with a vise of the same type drawn as fitted, so have emailed it to you. Record's #53 vise is quite a beast in terms of weight and is a large example, but an excellent choice if you manage to source an original.

Hi Gary,
Many thanks !! Now I see that the vises have to be closer to the center than the legs.
My problem with that is though, I'm going have wedges alongside the leg, next to the side closer to the the center (the "inside" of the frame). They might interfere with the vise. should I change the design so that the wedges are on the side of the legs farther from the center (the "outside" of the fram)?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've not been able to find original Record vises, only Irwin Record ones:http://www.tooled-up.com/manproduct/irwin-record-t53ed-professional-quick-release-plain-screw-woodworking-vice-with-front-dog-10.5-265mm/8124/

and also these by an unknown maker on fine-tools:
http://www.fine-tools.com/schraub.htm
well, unknown maker, but since Dieter Schmidt is selling it, it's ought to be good.

Sam

Never a problem Sam. If you need any further detail just let me know and I can draft additional drawings into the same Sketchup file and re-send it. It will be perfectly fine for you to shift wedge location to the outside of the leg frame, but - if the bench is going to be used long term in one location - I'd consider omitting the wedge detail and simply set the leg frame uprights within vertical housing/dado joints cut into the apron and lock the legs into place using a pair of lag or coach bolts per leg.

Irwin Record vise are fine, but not as good as their older Record counterparts. One I'd consider would be the ones currently made by Eclipse, but in the same configuration as Record's 52.1/2.

http://www.tilgear.info/wwv900qrl--ecli ... pse&page=4

The 9"/225mm vise jaw width can be expanded to almost 18"/450mm by adding longer jaw liners and clamping depth should be large enough to handle the work you intend to be involved with.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Hi Sam,

The vise is specifically located within the apron as an added means of support

I don't understand.The fixing bolts for a (usual) vise go up though the vise into the benchtop. How is an apron involved?

BugBear

The apron - in part - forms the rear jaw liner and extends the vise effective jaw width. By extension, the apron is part of the vise support, as well as preventing racking in the workbench during use.

Of course if you've a decent thickness top and the inner liner is flush with the edge of the bench, you've effectively got a 3" - 4" inner jaw the length of the bench, whether you've an apron or not.

 

[GazPal]

Of course if you've a decent thickness top and the inner liner is flush with the edge of the bench, you've effectively got a 3" - 4" inner jaw the length of the bench, whether you've an apron or not.

A bench length inner jaw liner is redundant unless the vise is the same length. Some prefer to face mount vise while others choose to inlet them and both are valid options.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Gary, you didn't make that point in your original post - so the long inner jaw is fine if it's the apron, but not if it's the bench itself?

 

[GazPal]

Gary, you didn't make that point in your original post - so the long inner jaw is fine if it's the apron, but not if it's the bench itself?

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The apron is part of the bench, but below the bench top edge. You can incorporate an element of the apron/bench top for use as the rear jaw liner if a vise rear jaw is inset into the bench, but use an insert. The bench top can't be part of the vise if the vise's rear jaw is face mounted.

 

[Jacob]

Sam you seem to making things unnecessarily complicated. Making a good bench isn't a design problem - it's just a question of which one to copy, they've all been designed already.
Why not just stick to Sellers design? Or this one below, either way you can't go wrong! I can post up the rest of the text if you want.

PS once you have the stuff planed up square you could make either bench in a day and then get on with some more interesting woodwork.

 

[J_SAMa]

Sam you seem to making things unnecessarily complicated. Making a good bench isn't a design problem - it's just a question of which one to copy, they've all been designed already.
Why not just stick to Sellers design? Or this one below, either way you can't go wrong! I can post up the rest of the text if you want.

PS once you have the stuff planed up square you could make either bench in a day and then get on with some more interesting woodwork.

Hi Jacob
Well, that's what I'm doing now. I've finally decided to stick with the original Paul Sellers' design.
Design nothing... That's the key to a good bench I guess.
Sam

PS: building it in a day? Simply making all the laminated pieces can take me 3 days... I don't have many clamps.

 

[GazPal]

Sam you seem to making things unnecessarily complicated. Making a good bench isn't a design problem - it's just a question of which one to copy, they've all been designed already.
Why not just stick to Sellers design? Or this one below, either way you can't go wrong! I can post up the rest of the text if you want.

PS once you have the stuff planed up square you could make either bench in a day and then get on with some more interesting woodwork.

Hi Jacob
Well, that's what I'm doing now. I've finally decided to stick with the original Paul Sellers' design.
Design nothing... That's the key to a good bench I guess.
Sam

PS: building it in a day? Simply making all the laminated pieces can take me 3 days... I don't have many clamps.

How many clamps do you have?