Workbench Advice

[Phil Pascoe]

Jacob - I knew you'd come.

 

[Jelly]

The 'english' bench is also far and away the easiest to make. It's a bit boring to look at - less glamourous than the continental types but very functional non the less.

As in the classic School Workbench, with a vice on each side and a tool-well?

 

[Muswell]

Stuff stays on top anyway, so rarely needs clamping, but things fall off the side - so G clamps or dog holes in the apron are really useful.

Depends what you are doing. It might stay on top but it can move sideways. I have just spent a couple of hours this afternoon with jigsaw and router making an L shaped marine ply worktop with cut-out for sink. Clamped it down to the top. And then I have a ball joint multi-angle vice which I clamp down for carving.

Now what a man really needs is 2 benches.

 

[Jacob]

The 'english' bench is also far and away the easiest to make. It's a bit boring to look at - less glamourous than the continental types but very functional non the less.

As in the classic School Workbench, with a vice on each side and a tool-well?

Yes. Seen in woodwork shops everywhere, large or small, not just schools. The standard pattern more or less. Simplest to make and highly functional. Even if you want a fussy continental bench you'd do well to knock up a trad english pattern first, as a working tool.
Somehow they have been dropped from the agenda, mainly because they aren't very sexy and modern woodworkers don't seem to like simple things!

 

[Jelly]

The 'english' bench is also far and away the easiest to make. It's a bit boring to look at - less glamourous than the continental types but very functional non the less.

As in the classic School Workbench, with a vice on each side and a tool-well?

Yes. Seen in woodwork shops everywhere, large or small, not just schools. The standard pattern more or less. Simplest to make and highly functional. Even if you want a fussy continental bench you'd do well to knock up a trad english pattern first, as a working tool.
Somehow they have been dropped from the agenda, mainly because they aren't very sexy and modern woodworkers don't seem to like simple things!

I rather like them, I have one with double 12" quick-release vices and another higher one mounted on casters. Very functional and tough.

I'm not sure if I see the need for anything else...

 

[J_SAMa]

Col - Some people swear by aprons, I've never really seen the need although .....

The main advantage of aprons is that they are the easiest way to stiffen up the whole structure - effectively bracing the legs and also adding support under the front edge of the top beam.
What you lose in top clamping you gain in side clamping. Stuff stays on top anyway, so rarely needs clamping, but things fall off the side - so G clamps or dog holes in the apron are really useful.
The 'english' bench is also far and away the easiest to make. It's a bit boring to look at - less glamourous than the continental types but very functional non the less.

Hi Jacob,
By "English" workbench are you referring to this:

Or this one originally illustrated in Nicholson's book?

I can see that the Paul Sellers workbench resembles the second one in many ways. Having only short trestles and using wide aprons in place of long trestles.
The first one though looks harder to build... Because of the angle legs.
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As for lumber choice, I'm thinking about Douglas fir, or even just white pine. This is my first bench and I know for sure that it's going to be imperfect and I'm bound to build a second one, more likely sooner than later. So I just don't want to invest too much in this one and save the money for something like beech or maple for my second bench. Plus since this is my first bench, using softer wood will make the project easier and in case I screw up, I don't loose too much.

 

[marcros]

my bench resembles the first, without the shelf and tail vice. The angled legs didn't make it any more difficult to build- just make sure you do all the angled cross cuts on the same mitre gauge setting. The angled legs should help resist raking, although with 9" of apron front and back, glued and screwed (also sitting in a rebate) it isn't going anywhere anyway.

There are many advantages and disadvantages of aprons- don't spend too long worrying about making the perfect bench, because at this stage you probably wont know what you need! I like my bench, but I particularly like the fact that if i need to nail a baton to it for work holding, I don't give it a second thought. If I want to see what a finish colour looks like, on the apron it gets slapped. It is a tool like any other, it is not a precious finished item, for me at least.

wood choice- use whatever is available and cheap!

 

[Jelly]

Hi Jacob,
By "English" workbench are you referring to this:

Or this one originally illustrated in Nicholson's book?

Whilst I'm not Jacob, if we're on the same page about the workbenches he's discussing, it would be something like this:

That is a very basic and world-worn example, but it's really something that simple!

 

[Jacob]

....
Hi Jacob,
By "English" workbench are you referring to this:.....
Or this one originally illustrated in Nicholson's book?
............

More like this below. New woodworkers seem to be unaware of this basic trad (British?) design and are more familiar with the historic examples above, or continental styles. Very odd!
It's as though someone has been rewriting the story, different benches, tool mania, polishing and sharpening frenzies, all relatively new.

 

[GazPal]

Hi Sam,

Paul's design is a proven one and a very good one too. His use of wedges is simply a method of making the bench easy to strip down and is one step you can happily leave out, as long as you still bolt the leg frames to the front and back aprons and coach screw the frames to the underside of the work top. It's the method Paul uses and it's perfectly fit for purpose.

Hi Gary,

Am I understanding what your post incorrectly or are you saying that simply bolting the aprons to the frames will work? I remember reading on the Schwarz's blog that bolts and screws will never work quite well for workbenches...
If I were to build it with the wedges, would it help if I glued them? I know it would make the wedges rather pointless, but that's better than bolts alonge right?

There's nothing wrong in using top and bottom stretchers in replacement of both front and rear aprons and you can step the front top stretcher back from the front edge of your bench for the sake of dog hole and end vise clearance. Simply mortise the front top stretcher into your end frame top stretchers instead of into the legs. The bottom stretcher can remain further forward and remain mortised into the front legs.

What size will you be building your bench and will it be kept against a wall or free standing in the middle of your working area?

If you have Sketchup I could work out a design and email it if you're in need of a few ideas or more clarification.

I'm thinking about 2100 mm by 600 mm, placed against a wall. And speaking of fixtures, do you think it is practical for me to drill horizontal holes might help. for holdfasts and dogs in the front apron? I obviously can't fit a deadman in there because of the aprons and thought horizontal h I know this seems a bit too early to ask as I've not even close to starting to build it but I'd want to ask it before I forget.

Another thing is the "feet". By it I'm referring to these:

The bench doesn't stand on the legs but stand on the "feet" that run across the legs (what are those called anyways?). Are those beneficial? Do they give you extra grip or something?

I just downloaded Sketchup and fiddled around with it for the last few hours. I'll base my design on Paul Sellers and hopefully have it drawn in a few days

Thanks
Sam

Horizontal holdfast holes in the apron can only ever add to the functionality of your bench and would never detract from it's utility.

In addition to the bolts, housing joints (Dado) let into the apron's as recess into which the legs locate helps provide a belts & braces approach to the build and locks everything together. There's no need to use wedges unless you plan on dismantling the bench to move it. I'd not glue the aprons to the legs, but would consider gluing them to the bench top. The use of NYLOC nuts and spring washers when tightening down the bolts will help improve grip and enhance the manner in which the bench holds firm. Planning the bench into sections - such as top, leg frames, etc.) and assembling it in sections helps make maintenance less arduous should you ever find a need to repair/replace elements.

I'd rather have each leg resting individually on the ground than use trestle feet (With the bottom stretcher resting on the ground) as any unevenness in the floor will impact on how level the bench sits. Yes, self levelling adjusters can be used, but I don't think they're truly necessary, plus having them simply adds to complexity.

The flare legged design you provided rings true of Schwarz's take on the English (Nicholson) bench and honestly adds little or nothing to practicality in build or use. Artistic flare perhaps, but needless as the bench is already longitudinally braces via the presence of aprons. His preference for Roubo rings loud and true throughout both bench books and - in all honesty - is heavily biased in favour of his past, present and (Presumed) future endeavors surrounding his fascination with all that is Roubo. Even his suggestion that the leg vise should be angled to add to clamping width is unnecessary, as clamping width can be enhanced by simply widening the vise jaws. The square legged design is far better and simpler, as it's far easier to equip such benches with end mounted storage cupboards for quares, saws, etc..

 

[No skills]

Its just whats in popular press at the time, if some body else writes a fair bit of material with a different slant in future years then views will change again. Fashions a funny thing, certain things (usualy very few) will stick around regardless of what happens and the rest changes like the wind.

 

[Modernist]

The problem with th4e "English" style is that the vise handle fouls the cupboard door normally including a few fingers in the process. I've opted for doorless cupboards and vacuum them out occasionally.

 

[twothumbs]

Having spent ages years ago thinking what I wanted /needed (not the same thing) I would be temped to build a good old British bench and use clamps, etc. Then you will learn what you truely need. Legs, rail etc. Simple and after all it is about making things and not benches. I would use bolts and screwed rod instead of wedged tenons....plenty of info around on that or I will expand what is involved. If the top is heavy it can sit loose so no need to fix down. If you are on your own then you have to lift everything so worth a thought. Made my first bench when I was about 14 from old fireplace mantels and fence posts. All 4" nail 'joints' with some dry half joints. I will not tell you how may decades it was successfully used before being replaced. Jacob is on the ball here. I am sure I saw a very old advert for continental style benches advertised as a gentlemans bench.... after all a gentleman could not be expected to use a bench which looked as as if it came from the local craftsmans shed. All benches would be made for the job or inherited, and a gentleman wouldn't know where to start so hence the growth of proper benches for carving and picture framing. People were there to make a living or earn money...not to spend time on fancy benches as protrayed by the american market via. books. Or am I wrong? When needs must..... keep it simple in redwood. Best wishes.

 

[Benchwayze]

Col - Some people swear by aprons, I've never really seen the need although when I make another bench, I'm tempted to put an apron on one side only and have the best of both worlds. The lack of them makes clamping easier, although that is probably less important when using holdfasts.
I spaced the holes on mine so that I could bolt my bench drill near the vice using the same ones - I can swing the drill out over something held in the vice.

Phil - good thing that the aprons debate isn't as emotional as the sharpening debate
I have an old Progress bench drill - would love to be able to reposition it and swing over stock in the vice but it weighs it at over a 110kg so I don't move it much

That's where a rugged drill-stand comes in. Something like the Record, cast iron stand. Heavy enough to be stable and accurate, but not so massive as to make it difficult to lift onto the bench. It also makes a good job of drilling dog-holes in the bench-top, with a heavy weight on the drill table.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I started to think about when I drilled dog holes in mine - all I did was get a piece of gash 4" x 2" and put a couple of perfectly vertical holes in it on my bench drill, then I clamped it down for a guide. Saved moving the bench drill, and I haven't got a drill with a 43mm collar at the moment.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

John - I've got one of the older, heavier Bosch drill stands as well - I often bolt that down, as well. It's useful because a 43mm collar router fits it as well.

 

[J_SAMa]

....
Hi Jacob,
By "English" workbench are you referring to this:.....
Or this one originally illustrated in Nicholson's book?
............

More like this below. New woodworkers seem to be unaware of this basic trad (British?) design and are more familiar with the historic examples above, or continental styles. Very odd!
It's as though someone has been rewriting the story, different benches, tool mania, polishing and sharpening frenzies, all relatively new.

Well, I don't live in the UK... And yeah, the more I look at it the more it looks like Paul Sellers'...

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Sam,

Paul's design is a proven one and a very good one too. His use of wedges is simply a method of making the bench easy to strip down and is one step you can happily leave out, as long as you still bolt the leg frames to the front and back aprons and coach screw the frames to the underside of the work top. It's the method Paul uses and it's perfectly fit for purpose.

Hi Gary,

Am I understanding what your post incorrectly or are you saying that simply bolting the aprons to the frames will work? I remember reading on the Schwarz's blog that bolts and screws will never work quite well for workbenches...
If I were to build it with the wedges, would it help if I glued them? I know it would make the wedges rather pointless, but that's better than bolts alonge right?

There's nothing wrong in using top and bottom stretchers in replacement of both front and rear aprons and you can step the front top stretcher back from the front edge of your bench for the sake of dog hole and end vise clearance. Simply mortise the front top stretcher into your end frame top stretchers instead of into the legs. The bottom stretcher can remain further forward and remain mortised into the front legs.

What size will you be building your bench and will it be kept against a wall or free standing in the middle of your working area?

If you have Sketchup I could work out a design and email it if you're in need of a few ideas or more clarification.

I'm thinking about 2100 mm by 600 mm, placed against a wall. And speaking of fixtures, do you think it is practical for me to drill horizontal holes might help. for holdfasts and dogs in the front apron? I obviously can't fit a deadman in there because of the aprons and thought horizontal h I know this seems a bit too early to ask as I've not even close to starting to build it but I'd want to ask it before I forget.

Another thing is the "feet". By it I'm referring to these:

The bench doesn't stand on the legs but stand on the "feet" that run across the legs (what are those called anyways?). Are those beneficial? Do they give you extra grip or something?

I just downloaded Sketchup and fiddled around with it for the last few hours. I'll base my design on Paul Sellers and hopefully have it drawn in a few days

Thanks
Sam

Horizontal holdfast holes in the apron can only ever add to the functionality of your bench and would never detract from it's utility.

In addition to the bolts, housing joints (Dado) let into the apron's as recess into which the legs locate helps provide a belts & braces approach to the build and locks everything together. There's no need to use wedges unless you plan on dismantling the bench to move it. I'd not glue the aprons to the legs, but would consider gluing them to the bench top. The use of NYLOC nuts and spring washers when tightening down the bolts will help improve grip and enhance the manner in which the bench holds firm. Planning the bench into sections - such as top, leg frames, etc.) and assembling it in sections helps make maintenance less arduous should you ever find a need to repair/replace elements.

I'd rather have each leg resting individually on the ground than use trestle feet (With the bottom stretcher resting on the ground) as any unevenness in the floor will impact on how level the bench sits. Yes, self levelling adjusters can be used, but I don't think they're truly necessary, plus having them simply adds to complexity.

The flare legged design you provided rings true of Schwarz's take on the English (Nicholson) bench and honestly adds little or nothing to practicality in build or use. Artistic flare perhaps, but needless as the bench is already longitudinally braces via the presence of aprons. His preference for Roubo rings loud and true throughout both bench books and - in all honesty - is heavily biased in favour of his past, present and (Presumed) future endeavors surrounding his fascination with all that is Roubo. Even his suggestion that the leg vise should be angled to add to clamping width is unnecessary, as clamping width can be enhanced by simply widening the vise jaws. The square legged design is far better and simpler, as it's far easier to equip such benches with end mounted storage cupboards for quares, saws, etc..

Hi Gary,
Thanks for clearing up the mysteries with angled legs.
I think I'll just go with Paul Sellers' methods all the way. He can't be too wrong. :wink: I'll use wedges and bolts as I might move once after I enter college (maybe to England or Scotland).
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Any opinion on lumber choice? I'm thinking about Douglas fir or even just white pine (or a mix of both?). It's my first bench and I'm certain that I'll build a second one. So I don't wanna invest on this too much now.

Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

Having spent ages years ago thinking what I wanted /needed (not the same thing) I would be temped to build a good old British bench and use clamps, etc. Then you will learn what you truely need. Legs, rail etc. Simple and after all it is about making things and not benches. I would use bolts and screwed rod instead of wedged tenons....plenty of info around on that or I will expand what is involved. If the top is heavy it can sit loose so no need to fix down. If you are on your own then you have to lift everything so worth a thought. Made my first bench when I was about 14 from old fireplace mantels and fence posts. All 4" nail 'joints' with some dry half joints. I will not tell you how may decades it was successfully used before being replaced. Jacob is on the ball here. I am sure I saw a very old advert for continental style benches advertised as a gentlemans bench.... after all a gentleman could not be expected to use a bench which looked as as if it came from the local craftsmans shed. All benches would be made for the job or inherited, and a gentleman wouldn't know where to start so hence the growth of proper benches for carving and picture framing. People were there to make a living or earn money...not to spend time on fancy benches as protrayed by the american market via. books. Or am I wrong? When needs must..... keep it simple in redwood. Best wishes.

Hi Twothumbs,
Yeah... I'll be honest... I'm only 14 now... So I guess it's a good age to start building stuff with wood. :wink:
Sam