Workbench Advice

[J_SAMa]

Sam you seem to making things unnecessarily complicated. Making a good bench isn't a design problem - it's just a question of which one to copy, they've all been designed already.
Why not just stick to Sellers design? Or this one below, either way you can't go wrong! I can post up the rest of the text if you want.

PS once you have the stuff planed up square you could make either bench in a day and then get on with some more interesting woodwork.

Hi Jacob
Well, that's what I'm doing now. I've finally decided to stick with the original Paul Sellers' design.
Design nothing... That's the key to a good bench I guess.
Sam

PS: building it in a day? Simply making all the laminated pieces can take me 3 days... I don't have many clamps.

How many clamps do you have?

Only 6 long ones... And some shorter f-clamps

 

[GazPal]

Only 6 long ones... And some shorter f-clamps

If you check out cramp heads, you could consider adding a couple of sets to what you have. They're an option which can help add a little flexibility to your set up.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod32169/

 

[J_SAMa]

Only 6 long ones... And some shorter f-clamps

If you check out cramp heads, you could consider adding a couple of sets to what you have. They're an option which can help add a little flexibility to your set up.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod32169/

Those are cool, but aluminum sash clamps are actually cheaper and more stress-resistant than wood.

 

[GazPal]

Only 6 long ones... And some shorter f-clamps

If you check out cramp heads, you could consider adding a couple of sets to what you have. They're an option which can help add a little flexibility to your set up.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod32169/

Those are cool, but aluminum sash clamps are actually cheaper and more stress-resistant than wood.

I agree regarding the cost of cheaper aluminium sash cramps, but with each set of cramp heads you have the added scope for expanding your clamping options via the use of longer or shorter bar stock (It needn't be timber), rather than be restricted to pre-fitted bar lengths. One week you may find yourself needing more sash cramps of a certain size and having such flexibility - using cramp heads - helps you avoid investing in more of one size than potentially necessary.

Laminated timber beams can be made and used instead of single piece sections and provide more strength and rigidity.

My own clamping set up includes approx 30 f-clamps (Various sizes) and 10 sash cramps each in sizes 600mm, 900mm and 1500mm, but I also have 8 sets of sash cramp heads and a selection of spare cramp bars among my other clamps (G-cramps, Klemsia clamps, violin clamps, etc.).

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,
Well, I had planned on using Douglas fir for this bench, but today I checked and discovered that my local home center sells a type of spruce (white, probably the type sometimes referred to as "European spruce") that is only a bit more than half of the price of the Douglas fir I can find. It's apparently planed all round. Does this homecenter grade spruce qualify for my workbench build or should I spend some extra money and stick to Douglas fir? It's probably more than just "some" money we are talking about here.

Haven't even started my build and I'm already having second thoughts... Not good, not good...

Sam

 

[Jacob]

Hi all,
Well, I had planned on using Douglas fir for this bench, but today I checked and discovered that my local home center sells a type of spruce (white, probably the type sometimes referred to as "European spruce") that is only a bit more than half of the price of the Douglas fir I can find. It's apparently planed all round. Does this homecenter grade spruce qualify for my workbench build or should I spend some extra money and stick to Douglas fir? It's probably more than just "some" money we are talking about here.

Haven't even started my build and I'm already having second thoughts... Not good, not good...

Sam

The whole idea of the Sellers bench is that you use the stuff that is easily available from your nearest shed i.e. most likely whitewood of indeterminate species planed all round. So you've hit the jackpot - just go for it and stop worrying - head down brain off!

 

[GazPal]

Hi all,
It's probably more than just "some" money we are talking about here.

Haven't even started my build and I'm already having second thoughts... Not good, not good...

Sam

Sit back, breath and inwardly digest and analyse all information until you're ready to create your build. All we can do is make recommendations based on experience and first hand knowledge, but only you can decide on the style to build, method used and what to build it from. Materials availability and cost is no doubt a massive consideration, but this is where personal decisions need to be made and - if lacking experience - suggestions considered.

Everyone weighs up the pro's and con's before injecting hard earned cash into projects, tools and equipment, but there comes a time when you need to prioritise and decide how much and when to invest. It's not necessarily easy, or cheap, but the time isn't right if you're uncertain of which direction to travel. I suggest you take more time and do more research before committing to your bench build

The costs involved can be quite surprising once you crank a few figures around on a calculator/pen and paper. Bear in mind the fact you're the one who decides upon timescale involved, but you're not competing with anyone and if ever you need help or advice we're all too happy to offer help. If you'd lived much closer to us I'm certain my son would have been on hand to offer help and guidance when needed.

Deciding upon the type of projects you can foresee yourself undertaking will influence the style of bench you'll need and use. As you rightly said earlier, a bench design can be used and allowed to evolve to a point where you're ready to invest in different materials for a re-build or total design shift once you've accumulated more experience and practise. You will, however, accumulate quite a degree of practise during your initial bench build as it involves design, setting out, materials prep, joint's prep, glue-up, assembly, clamping, finishing and the fitting of hardware.

 

[Carl P]

I built a workbench after many years of fiddling about - I wish I'd built it earlier, it's far from perfect, I learned a lot from the build and subsequent use, obviously I'd do it differently now, but even with its imperfections its the most useful thing I've ever made and without it I wouldn't be able to do many of the things I now take for granted. It feels like a big step, but once you actually start it makes more sense. I'd go for cheapness - you'll be able to spend the difference on decent tools and in 2 or 3 years time you'll be in a position to know what you need from a bench and act accordingly.

No workbench is perfect, but working around the imperfections is a lot easier than no bench - I used to use a rickety cheap workmate and devised various ways of wedging stuff to the floor so I could plane it, life is so much easier with a bench!

Anyway, hope that's helpful,

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Jelly]

Hi all,
Well, I had planned on using Douglas fir for this bench, but today I checked and discovered that my local home center sells a type of spruce (white, probably the type sometimes referred to as "European spruce") that is only a bit more than half of the price of the Douglas fir I can find. It's apparently planed all round. Does this homecenter grade spruce qualify for my workbench build or should I spend some extra money and stick to Douglas fir? It's probably more than just "some" money we are talking about here.

Haven't even started my build and I'm already having second thoughts... Not good, not good...

Sam

The stuff from the home center is almost certainly going to be material fitting the specifications of European Whitewood, most likely Norway Spruce if it has spruce in the name. It's not commonly used in fine work due to frequent small knots, but it sees plenty of use in interior joinery and strength graded material is often used in carpentry for timber framing in buildings, and in a production environment for roof trusses and modular timber buildings.

I can see no good reason to spend extra on Douglas Fir... with softwoods, unless you need a specific properties, it's usually most economical to buy what's locally abundant*.

*I'm lucky in living in a county which is bounded by 3 significant Douglas Fir plantations, though the lack of kiln facilities locally brings it's own issues with accounting for wastage.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Jelly,
Yep, it makes sense now. Since it works for building there's no reason it won't be strong enough for a workbench.
Sam

 

[GazPal]

Hi Jelly,
Yep, it makes sense now. Since it works for building there's no reason it won't be strong enough for a workbench.
Sam

The end result will be a good solid workbench. :wink:

 

[Jacob]

Paul Sellers says so too! http://paulsellers.com/2013/04/softwood ... work-great

 

[Eric The Viking]

I started a long posting on the good and bad bits about my bench. Waste of time. Good bits: It's made mainly of reclaimed timber and it's heavy and it's flat and it's got a decent front clamping edge/apron and face vice (Record 52 1/2). Bad bits: everything else.

I just bought Chris Schwartz's book on workbenches from another forum member. It's brilliant: full of common sense and humour, and some nice photography and illustrations, and it has plans too.

Schwartz doesn't force his opinions on you. Instead he discusses various aspects of the different types, from the perspective of what you make and how you make it. Of course there's too much information, but his point is that your bench is the biggest and most used workholding tool in the workshop, so it needs to do its job as well as possible. And, although he's known as a hand tool fanatic, he makes frequent reference to how power tools have different clamping needs, and how you might accommodate both.

I'm inspired to a MkII version of mine. I recommend the book and wish I'd bought it years ago.

Hope that's helpful -- but it can't be as helpful as Schwartz's book!

E.

 

[carlb40]

Yes i agree that is an excellent book. I bought my copy as a xmas present to myself. Also requested and received the scott landis bench book as a present, but IMO is no where near as good.

 

[GazPal]

Both of Schwarzie's bench books are good reads - I like his writing style -, but the second is a compilation using other's input. I do get the sensation his bias remains heavily in favour of leg vise and Roubo Benches. He does "English" styled benches no favours by potentially misinforming readers into thinking they're torsion boxed tops and potentially frail while lacking clamping facility and heft.

I also enjoyed reading his Anarchist Toolchest book and think it's excellent food for thought for anyone interested in crafting a chest of the type in question. I'd recommend erring on the side of caution if adopting his layout for sliding trays/tills and saw storage, as the likelihood for blunting stored edge tools is pretty high.

 

[No skills]

Both of Schwarzie's bench books are good reads - I like his writing style -, but the second is a compilation using other's input. I do get the sensation his bias remains heavily in favour of leg vise and Roubo Benches. He does "English" styled benches no favours by potentially misinforming readers into thinking they're torsion boxed tops and potentially frail while lacking clamping facility and heft.

I also enjoyed reading his Anarchist Toolchest book and think it's excellent food for thought for anyone interested in crafting a chest of the type in question. I'd recommend erring on the side of caution if adopting his layout for sliding trays/tills and saw storage, as the likelihood for blunting stored edge tools is pretty high.

I got that impression as well, hes stuck on the roubo. Thats not a bad thing mind but other bench designs wont really be considered by the schwarz, I'm collecting material for the 'english' bench in that book - or my take on it anyhow.

The anarchists tool chest is mostly a good read, the tool chest design itself isnt for me (all that bending over to get the tools? not with my back) - I like the Dutch chest shown on his blog, I'm building that this week.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I can see he likes his Roubo, but...

... I'm not sure it's bias, as much as concluding it suits general cabinetmaking better than the English bench, which may be faster (tuned) for joinery. He has got a point about the front apron getting in the way of clamping to the top. The question is whether that is worse than not having it.

Of one thing I am certain: his Roubo is far too heavy for me! Mine must be less than half the mass and doesn't shift about, even though it hasn't got a front rail at all. I may not be using it hard enough, I guess, but I don't want to make it any heavier!

 

[carlb40]

I want to get hold of his anarchists book. I have see the video of it with Roy underhill. Nice chest, but no way i could ever move something like that.

I decided on the Roubo for my next bench, just cannot decide between draw bored tenon's or the through tenon/ dovetail version of the leg joints.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Roy Underhill has a nice take on it, with seemingly impossible dovetails for the front, because he cants the rear legs and adds a tool tray. I think I'd prefer the shelf although mine gets pretty cluttered without either.

 

[GazPal]

I can see he likes his Roubo, but...

... I'm not sure it's bias, as much as concluding it suits general cabinetmaking better than the English bench, which may be faster (tuned) for joinery. He has got a point about the front apron getting in the way of clamping to the top. The question is whether that is worse than not having it.

Of one thing I am certain: his Roubo is far too heavy for me! Mine must be less than half the mass and doesn't shift about, even though it hasn't got a front rail at all. I may not be using it hard enough, I guess, but I don't want to make it any heavier!

Judging by the amount of publicity he's garnered from - and still enjoys - his take on Roubo's design, I'd dare say he's biased from that perspective. The resulting racking - face of bench thrown out of square with the legs - from seasonal changes in the bench he publicises would soon sicken me from working with such a bench and the exposed tenons would seldom be flush with the top surface. The main weakness is are around the top "dovetailed" leg tenon nearest the face edge, as this would - for me - prove a liability due to it forming a small section of the front edge of the bench. The resulting weakness was exposed as a contributing factor when his small Roubo failed dramatically - albeit the major flaw being in the punky quality of the timber he chose to use and mistakenly patched running shakes with coloured epoxy.

I got that impression as well, hes stuck on the roubo. Thats not a bad thing mind but other bench designs wont really be considered by the schwarz, I'm collecting material for the 'english' bench in that book - or my take on it anyhow.

The anarchists tool chest is mostly a good read, the tool chest design itself isnt for me (all that bending over to get the tools? not with my back) - I like the Dutch chest shown on his blog, I'm building that this week.

One aspect I'd alter regarding his Dutch chest would be to plan plane storage around the lower levels, store saws on the lid, while keeping small tool storage within the lidded top section. I'd consider lidded trays/boxes for chisels, drill bits and sharpening kit, so they're kept safe from damage and consolidate a better racking method for tenon saws rather than risk their edges dinged or dinging other tools or have tooth qualiity suffer through being knocked.

Saw blade guards are a necessity, plus you tend to find yourself not needing to resharpen saws as frequently if they're fitted during storage.

Good sources for information/design ideas in that respect can be found if you consider patternmaker's multi-trayed boxes and joiner's boxes (Both upright and small chest designs), as all three types normally possess at least two trays, plus hold the majority of tools needed and can be mounted upon a purpose made stand within the workshop.